Ask 411 Wrestling 10.05.11: Safety First, Last Arm Drops, Ultra Violence, More!

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Backtalking

World Titles: I appreciate that others may disagree with my stance on world titles. I also said that last week. So thank you for the feedback, but my position has not changed, nor should you.

Owen Hart: … Without getting into an argument over this, Owen Hart died in an accident that was a direct consequence of actions undertaken by the WWF as part of their employment of him. That is, in my mind, the very definition of something not turning out in a positive fashion. But if you were offended, I’m sorry you feel that way.

Dominate/Dominant: See, now, unlike my usage of ‘hence/thus/therefore’ (which is perfectly justified in the English language) this is a genuine mistake that I keep making because I’m hazy at times with spelling and spellcheck is not perfect. And for that, I apologize. I will endeavour to not make the mistake in future, but frankly, if you go back over my past work, my track record is not superb when it comes to mistypings that are actual words. Huh, maybe writing these things into the night’s not a superb idea…

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Who am I? Andre The Giant’s birthplace is none of my business. My name was given to me by the ring announcer of my first match. I was once called a Machine. I once lived in Melbourne, Australia. I once claimed to be somewhat of an artist. I won a title 37 years after debuting in the industry. And I’ve done something that only Sgt. Slaughter had done before me. Who am I?

Azrael81 is pretty much on the money.

You are “Rowdy” Roddy Piper.

I’ve done something that only Sgt. Slaughter had done before me. – In 2007, Piper became the second pro-wrestler (after Sgt. Slaughter) to have their likeness crafted in a G.I. Joe figure. According to his filecard, he is a trainer for Destro’s Iron Grenadiers.

See, I’ve been watching the Piper DVD set a lot the past week, so it’s based on that really. As pointed out by others, The birthplace thing was in a Piper’s Pit with Andre, while the artist was with Piper’s Pit with Mr. T.

Who am I? I used to have a “Two Initials-Last Name” ring name style. My sole singles title in the United States lasted a respectable 175 days, while my tag title reign in the same company didn’t last one day. I was once burned in a fireball spot gone wrong. I once teamed with Matt Hardy. A Slammy winner, I am who?

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?

Bobby starts us off with Bret V Lex.

Last week, you talked about how “Luger failed to get the required momentum leading up to Summerslam” and how the “Luger experiment failed”. My question is, why was his main event push deemed a failure? Summerslam 93 drew a respectable buyrate and I remember the live audiences reacting favorably to Luger (though obviously not to the same extent as with Hogan). The WWF pushed Bret in favor of Luger and ratings and buyrates continued their free fall. Why isn’t Bret’s push considered a failure?

There’s a few reasons. For starters, Bret’s push isn’t exactly held as the pinnacle of face push achievement, to be fair. Yes, it’s not nearly as reviled as the Lex Express Tour, but it’s not considered a success. Now, Bret was, at least, popular in Canada and had a decent following overseas, so he always had that to fall back on, whereas Luger wasn’t a huge success anywhere. Scuttlebutt indicates that live events had somewhat lukewarm reactions to him and the Lex Express. And also Bret won, a liberty Luger was not given (look, as much as I wouldn’t have liked it, they should have had Luger win the title at Summerslam. Change it back at Survivor Series if it doesn’t work.)

However, the major reason is an economy of scale. Bret’s push was extensive, but over a long time. At no point was Bret Hart pushed as Hogan 2.0, as a All American Super Mega Face. He was just Bret Hart, Damn Fine Wrestler. Luger was given the almighty God push leading into Summerslam, hence why he should have won. But Luger got pushed hard and very fast, very quickly. So, since it didn’t work in making him as over as Hogan, it’s a failure because they pushed him too hard. Had he been pushed as Lex Luger, A Guy Who Realised He Didn’t Want To Be Evil, or some other gimmick that wasn’t so blatantly Hogan 2.0, it might be better received.

Pat continues the topic.

Hey

But these seem contradictory.. so which is it?

Neither.

Bret was never going to leave WMIX as champ, once they set things in motion with Yokozuna. Supposedly, like WMIV before it, the plan was for Bret to wrestle Yokozuna, Yokozuna cheats, Yokozuna wins, goodnight everybody!

That’s it. Hogan then comes in and says (rightly, to some degree) that WM should end with the face going over, and then suggests that after Yoko wins, he comes out, they have a 6-8 minute match, he wins. They go with that plan, and then thanks to time constraints Hogan wins in under a minute, practically.

Skip ahead to WMX. And Bret winning was again always the plan. This story that Luger was set to win the title and blabbed it to reporters the night before is 100% fake. You can go back and look at the newspapers from the time and none of them have anything about Luger saying he was gonna win.

And besides, if that had happened, why would that be news? I mean, all WWF would have to say is “Luger’s being confident, he is confident of beating Yokozuna”. I say I’m going to win every single match ever, even ones I’m not in. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

Stuart asks about Kurt Angle.

Hey, great column,

Thanks!!

Kurt Angle, for all the jokes and insults, seems to legitimately be training for the 2012 Summer Olympics. And for that, he needs to slim down, so that he has more flexibility, cardio and speed, or some sort of other benefit to Amateur wrestling I don’t know because I don’t know anything about it. But yeah, he’s slimming down because he is actually going to try for the Olympics.

Well, time to bite the bullet and get this over with. Doug has been waiting a long time for this, and since I’m never going to find the sources I need…

I recently watched the rf video shoot with Eric Embry. He told a story I’d never heard before: How WCCW became the USWA. After Jerry Jarrett bought the Dallas territory from Fritz Von Erich, Embry booked an angle where Taras Bulba used the claw on Kerry Von Erich and he was carried out on a stretcher. Well, Fritz was so pissed that he calls Jarrett and says that he could no longer use the World Class name. Apparently, Jarrett didn’t get the name included in the deal so WCCW became the USWA with Memphis.

Thanks,

Firstly, I don’t really buy that explanation of the name change, but I can’t prove it, so I’ll let it slide.

Second, yes I believe Jarrett was attempting to do what McMahon had offered to do and what Jim Crockett had done, expand by buying out territories. His purchases and attempted purchases do paint the picture of a guy who wants to run a national promotion. And more power to him, he did, kinda, for a little while in TNA, and he is one of those names that might have ended up running the WWF had Vince gone to jail. Clearly he has some idea of how to run/book a wrestling promotion, so why not do so on a major scale?

Now, supposedly yes, Jarrett did actually offer to buy out the AWA after Verne got into hot water. Verne’s money was coming from loans on a waterfront property that eventually was taken from him by eminent domain. So with that source of income gone, he ended up desperate to sell. He did contact Jarrett, and a deal was almost reached until, of all things, Verne’s insistence that Jerry push his son Greg Gagne as a top contender was the sticking point, and the issue that led to the deal falling through.

I don’t think not buying AWA led to him not going national, but it played a part. There was just too many obstacles in the way, with both Vince and Crockett in the way, there was only so far you could get, and without the AWA as a boost, it became that much harder to get there, and it didn’t end up seeming worth the slog for the off chance.

As for the timeslot, that comes down to the booking, specifically Eric Embry. Eric’s booking is actually somewhat ahead of his time, as you look back at the angles that got him into trouble with TV channels, a female valet getting superkicked by a man and taken out on a stretcher, Eric himself throwing up in the ring after a baseball attack, neither of those would cause eyelids to be batted in Attitude but at the time got USWA in huge hot water. And Invasion wasn’t on the cards since they wanted to merge the fanbases, not pit them against each other.

As for how ESPN went from USWA to GWF, that I can’t seem to find evidence on. I could guess that it was simply a case of GWF undercutting USWA, offering more content for less money, but I can’t give you an answer with any certainty. Perhaps a reader might know, but sadly my Google Fu has failed me somewhat here.

Simon wants to talk Shawn Michaels.

Hello,

Any information or videos on this would be great. I can only remember Shawn at the high flying Rocker and then the full blown HBK with Sherri.

Shawn’s first match after the break up was 2 days later in Pensacola Florida, where he was in a tag match against The Nasty Boys when he teamed with… Marty Jannetty.

See, although the break up was filmed at the beginning of December 1991, it wasn’t shown until January 1992. His first televised appearance and first wrestling appearance post showing of the attack was the 1992 Royal Rumble.

Now that’s not full blown HBK Shawn Michaels, sure, but it’s pretty close. His next match was about a week later, and in that match, Sherri was managing him. So prettyu much yes, he went straight from Rocker to HBK, albeit HBK Beta 0.8.

2. Why did they never run with the Michaels – Jannetty fued on a big scale? i know Marty kept getting fired but why did they not make a bigger deal of the fued when he was employed?

You kinda answered your own question there. I’m sure they wanted to make a big deal of it, but he kept getting fired. 6 days after the 92 Royal Rumble, to quote HistoryofWWE.com…

– 1/25/92: Marty Jannetty was arrested at 2 a.m. following an altercation outside a Tampa, FL nightclub with police. Jannetty’s female companion, Angela Ialacci, 19, was arrested by police after trying to use a fake ID, at which time Jannetty reportedly grabbed the cop. They were found to be in possession of less than a gram of cocaine. Jannetty was charged with possession of cocaine, possession of drug paraphernalia, and resisting arrest with force. Jannetty was indefinitely suspended by the WWF.

He came back in October, leading to a match at Royal Rumble 1993, which didn’t go well, and then he got fired the next night after being found passed out in the back of the San Jose State Event Center. True, WWF was running there, but still.

So the first two times he pretty much only feuded with Shawn Michaels, and it only ended when he got fired. True, his third run saw him win the IC title, but he lost it back fairly quickly and then was moved down. But by then, he’d burnt the WWF twice, so why risk pushing him as a major star if he had already blown two chances?

3. Why did he keep going over so weak? I remember he won by count out against Tatanka at WM9 (i know Tatanka was undefeated) but why not go over clean in the biggest event of all. The same thing happened in the Summerslam at Wembley.

Thanks

Because he was a slimy arrogant small heel. Slimy arrogant small heels don’t get clean wins, they cheat, they lie, they escape with their titles intact because they cheat outrageously. Nothing against him personally, just that he wasn’t being booked as a all crushing monster heel, more a small, vain one.

Shio wants to head to Japan.

Hey Mat, always with the most informative columns on the site.

Keep Being Awesome,

Stand back Byers, I got this.

I hope.

It’s a matter of timing and Japanese wrestling culture. For the years where he was dominating (there’s that word again) the Junior Heavyweight (Cruiserweight/Light Heavyweight/Small Guys Who Aren’t Midgets) division, that was seen to be on par with the Heavyweights, Liger holding the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title was just as prestigious as him holding the Heavyweight title. So there was no point moving over when he could get the same respect holding another title and wrestling guys better attended to his then wrestling style.

The closest he got was in 2000, when the then booker, Riki Chōshū, started to pull back the Juniors, Liger began to try his hand in the Heavyweight division and, really, probably should have won it at least once. But given that the division as a whole was being depushed, it just wasn’t on the cards for him to get that kind of push.

Now, of course, he’s wrestling, so it’s possible, but it seems that when he could really go they kept him with the other guys who could work well with him, and now that he’s maybe lost a step or two, he’s not looking to work with the bigger guys.

But I agree that he probably should hold it.