Ask 411 Wrestling 03.21.12: WM Main Events, WM Mistakes, WM Streaks, More!

Hello, and welcome to the column!

It may be a work in progress, but there is no better way for you to spend the next 24 minutes than by watching this video.

Anthony asks about yet more plan changing (maybe I should have thought about this prior to going ahead with it…)

1. Why did Kurt Angle beat Triple H at No Way Out 2002 for HHH’s Wrestlemania spot and then lose it right back the next night? Was there a plan for a triple threat?

God no. The reason for Angle to win the slot then lose it back again was to establish that the real feud, the thing that you were supposed to care about, was Steph V Hunter. Angle was just some stiff she used, and then when he failed her, she turned to another stiff in Chris Jericho. And that since with her, Angle could beat HHH, and without her, he couldn’t, that A) Angle couldn’t beat HHH, B) Steph could beat HHH and thus, when she aligned with Jericho, he might have a shot at beating HHH at Wrestlemania and C) HHH is ALL MANLY MAN and is awesome and that you love him.

2. If not then why did Kurt get the short end of the stick that Mania? From potentially main eventing to a match with Kane is a pretty big drop off.

But to be fair, he never actually WAS going to main event X7. Although he was one of Vince’s pet projects, and was doing pretty damn awesome as Champion, the odds of him making it to WM as champion were slim to none.

Angle was at that point over and able to work well with anyone. So, naturally, since he wasn’t one of the super top stars, he got a random undercard match to do his thing and provide a great match. And he did, even if the finish was wrong.

That would have been a bigger WM moment then the botched roll up.

Ronald asks about Wrestlemania 23’s main event.

I always wondered if john cena vrs hbk at wrestlemania 23 was really meant to be… what was the original plan to main event the show w/ john cena? It just seemed weird because triple H and hbk were tag teaming as DX and it looked like they were headed in a fued with edge and orton for wrestlemania. Then trip’s blew his other quad and HBK got hot shotted in the main event, even more confusing, leaving orton and edge with nothing. what would of happend if triple h didnt get injured?

If Hunter didn’t blow his quad, then we would have gotten HHH/Cena II. Everyone involved has said this, Hunter was meant to face Cena again. And presumably, the idea would have been that Hunter would beat Cena and then the two would have one last match at the next WM as the final ultimate blow off to their trilogy.

As for HBK, the plan was for him to face off with Booker T… Sorry, KING BOOK-HAH! one on one. Rated RKO was either going to be in MITB (which happened) or were to be up against The Hardys.

Kevin asks about another couple of matches that might have been at a WM. It’s a theme week!

Was there a match planned for wrestle mania 20 between Matt hardy and mark Henry? Because both of them were on losing streaks at the time
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I’ve read it online in one or two places, namely that Hardy was indeed on a losing streak gimmick after jumping to Raw, and that it was scheduled to end at Wrestlemania when he turned face and beat Human Person With A Y Chromosome Who, When Compared To The Rest Of The Population That Currently Existed At The Time, Was, Depending On The Testing Apparatus And/Or Frame Of Reference Would Be Considered To Possess The Highest Level Of Ability To Exert Force On Physical Objects Via Energy Produced By Their Muscular Fibers, Mark Henry.

But most of what is said is just repeating the same source. So while it’s possible, it hasn’t been confirmed by anyone involved. Wait till Matt Hardy does a YouShoot and ask him.

Was there any truth to the rumors around 2005 that rock was pushing for wwe to sign sting for a match at wrestlemania 21?
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411mania reported it, it must be true.

But yes, there was talk at the time. This was when Rock and WWE were working on his contract, the one that expired at the end of 2004. Basically Rock was, at the time, saying that if he was to stick around, he should have a ‘special’ match. And Sting is the dream one.

After all, WWE, Vince, has wanted Sting for so long. The one guy he never got, the sole hold out. I can certainly see why he’d want Sting to have even just one match, to get that WWE stamp. But it’s just not in the cards, not every time they’ve tried…

But yeah, he was pushing for the match. But WWE didn’t budge, the contract lasped, and Rock got a little upset that they didn’t call, and that lead to the fallout which was eventually patched up. Obviously, given the main event of WM this year.

My Damn Opinion

Kevin continues, asking about an infamous match.

Just out of curiosity….What was the original Goldberg v. Lesnar plan? Did they knew one or both or none were leaving at the time? And for the sake of just having fun what do you think they would they have done with Goldberg had he stayed? Seems to me he had one big problem….HHH. That can kill anything at anytime for anybody.

Thanks!

Goldberg they knew was on his way out. He was unhappy with his treatment and position (and you can understand why), and so he wasn’t going to be sticking around. So in booking the match, the intent was always to have Brock F5 him into oblivion and send him on his way to continue making Brock the unbeatable pain bringer. But when Brock upped and quit a few days prior to Wrestlemania, they changed the booking since Goldberg was giving them less of an FU than Brock. Goldberg was merely choosing not to re-sign a lapsing contract after they didn’t push him to a way he liked, which was somewhat poorly. Brock was quitting after getting the moon because… Well they couldn’t quite work that out, but he was walking out so, in their mind, fuck Brock. Goldberg was seen as the safer bet.

If he had stuck around, he’d continue being a solid face that wasn’t as over as he was in WCW nor as over as he should have been, given that they tried to book him ‘correctly’ and we all see how that worked.

But they could easily have switched Goldberg to Smackdown, away from HHH, and had him team with Eddie against JBL and his lackeys. Hell, had Goldberg been around, he probably should have got the WWE title, not JBL. That would have been interesting.

Steve has two questions about this upcoming Wrestlemania.

Hey Matthew, great job as always.

1) With Wrestlemania on the horizon now, this has been bugging me: I know that Cena needs to win. I understand the reasons why and I understand the importance of someone like the Rock putting him over. BUT, this is in Miami, in a huge stadium. Do they actually think that it’s going to be a split crowd? If it were anywhere else, I could see, but this is the Rock’s hometown. What are they going to do if it’s a Money in the Bank 2011 situation all over again, just on a much much larger scale? Can they really have Cena pin him clean in the face of 50,000 (or however many) pro-Rock fans? Is the only way to pull this off a heal turn? I just feel like if Cena wins clean, they shake hands, and the Rock lets Cena have the moment, it won’t end how they want it to.

Yeah, WWE has pushed this “Team Rock V Team Cena” thing so much that they seem to be buying it themselves, to paraphrase a quote. It is possible that they truly believe it’ll be a mixed reaction. But I would think that they are going in knowing that Cena’s going to get booed out of the building.

That said, Cena does have a history of rising to the occasion. MITB and One Night Stand showed that Cena can, if the circumstances are right, work as the ‘heel’ without turning. I think you are going to see that if he doesn’t get any cheers. Cena’s not going to turn (regardless of what many are saying/wishing for), but he’ll work in the heel role for the match. I also don’t think you will get the handshake moment at WM. I think if they try for the “I respect you, Cena” thing at WM, it’ll fall flat. Unless they panic and have Miz end up involved in the finish directly (i.e. somehow he eats the pinfall) Rock will lose and then walk away as Cena stares at him, triumphant, in the ring.

Then next night on Raw, while it’ll be in Miami, it’ll be smaller, and they can have a better shot of having Rock pass the torch and it not falling as flat. You can have them talk for 20 minutes and then have Rock shake his hand. It’s a safer option, rather than risking having the torch passed to the raw hatred of an entire arena.

2) Why do I have a sneaky feeling that they are going to have Sheamus squash D Bryan with a brogue kick off that bat?

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Because you know that Sheamus has got a friend in HHH and you assume that Bryan will get jobbed out quick smart. I don’t think you’re right, although it wouldn’t surprise me if the match begins in such a way, but it’ll be longer than 5 seconds. 10 minutes or so for Sheamus to systematically show Bryan’s ineffectual and weak and then pin him with one pinky finger and then leave with AJ.

Travis asks for my fantasy booking.

So with Wrestlemania coming up and how the year started off, how would you have booked Wrestlemania at the end of last week? Obviously with spoilers we have more matches announced for the end of the week but still, with out that how would you have done it?

So, with counting back, Travis means at the 10th/11th of March, which at the time was

The Rock vs. John Cena.
Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Triple H (w/Shawn Michaels as special referee)
WWE Title match: C.M. Punk vs. Chris Jericho.
World Heavyweight Title match: Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus.
Intercontinental Title match: Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show.

Now then, would I change any of those matches? No, they are all built up (apart from Cody/Show you could argue), but the rest of the card is free to play with.

So then, what would I book?

First off, Kane/Ryder. I know Ryder’s not liked in the back for daring to get over on his own, but I think the dude deserves a shot at the guy who, you know, injured him. Have Kane challenge Orton and then have him refuse, saying someone else already has him. Ryder then attacks Kane from behind. Make it no holds barred, and you have a nice brawling match to go between Bryan/Sheamus and Cody/Show. Hell, even have Kane beat Ryder if you must, hook up Eve and Kane maybe to pay it off.

But then that leaves Orton. What to do with him. I know they’ve gone back and forth on it, but I’d put one more gimmick match on the card (yes it’s overloaded, but then it’s WM after all. Plus I think WWE kinda needs to hit this one out of the park), but bring back Money In The Bank. You can replace the PPV later if you must (or not, I mean, the PPV ones are limited, make this Super Money In The Bank… Money In The Bank 64? MITB HD Remastered?), but instead of the unwieldy GM match, do MITB instead. Orton, Miz (he can work double duty in the main if you must), Dolph, Kofi, Del Rio, Clay, Christian, Hunico and R-Truth, say. Give Dolph the briefcase. Or hell, give it to Clay to keep until Wade gets back if you insist on him holding it, have Wade get it off Clay.

Have a quick Divas match, lumberjill, Beth defending against… doesn’t mater really. AJ maybe, so Bryan can call her selfish for not focusing on his match or something. Just to calm the fans down before the main, and to establish Beth is Super Mega Top so when Kharma does come back she can squash her.

And if you must do the GM thing, make it simple. Long/Santino V Ace/Otunga. Total comedy, no more than 10 mins.

Round out with a dark match over the top battle royal for the tag titles, and that’s a WM. Not that what they have is horrible, that’s just my booking. I’m sure others below will have ideas.

Christian wants to end on the Streak.

Love the column, easily my favourite read of the week.

Thanks,

OK, first off, Cena turning heel isn’t going to get people talking about wrestling again. Cena is not Hogan. In some cases, this is a good thing (Cena is a much better wrestler than Hogan). But Hogan had immense cross over appeal. Everyone knew who Hogan was, on sight. John Cena appeared on SNL in a cameo a while back and the audience didn’t notice. John Cena is known by anyone who knows wrestling, or has a passing knowledge of it, or if they watch something about wrestling. But turning Cena heel doesn’t have the same “Wait, what?” appeal as Hogan, since Hogan turning heel was genuinely shocking. Cena turning heel has been demanded for years by the people who will react when it does happen by cheering their asses off for Heel Cena.

That said, ending the streak isn’t about unpredictability. In fact, if the streak is to end, it should be Taker’s last match, since if he loses the Streak he has nothing left to give. I don’t think Taker should have a match at 20-1, or whatever.

See, I fully support unpredictability in wrestling, but I think with certain things, you need some predictability. The winner of the Rumble should win the title at Wrestlemania. You shouldn’t swerve a months long angle just because some fans have called the answer. And the face should walk out of the WM main event as champion. There is a difference between being unpredictable and being stupid with the story.

But then, perhaps I am wrong. What do you guys feel? Should there be more unpredictability? Or less? Or is today the right amount? And, if you do feel Taker should lose at WM, who too? My answer is always the same (Beat HHH this year, beat Kane next year, lose to Cena at XXX). But what of you?

We’ll come back next week and discuss it over a nice glass of whatever you drink while reading this column. Until then, thank you for joining me on this impromptu theme week of changes at WM. It is bye from me for now, and happy trails all!