Ask 411 Wrestling 06.06.12: Returns, Explosions, Lawsuits, More!

Oh yeah, and this is Ask 411 Wrestling, I’m Mathew Sforcina, blah blah, no-one cares.

What you should care about is the 411 Hottest 100 Wrestling Women list Cook put out. Clearly I had no input in this list, since Tara is far too low, given that she should be at 1, 2, and 5. But more importantly, Shazza McKenzie is only at 94. 94! That is far too low for a woman I hope to use to get bookings in the US in the future of her beauty and charm. For shame Cook. For Shame.

Also shameful is the fact that Just Another God Damned Wrasslin’ Show has not run the past couple of weeks. But it shall run this week, and I shall be Super Duper Special Guest Host, so tune in. As you should also tune in for 411mania’s podcasts and the Wrestling PodClash!

Oh, and I hearby offer my services to CHIKARA if they want a Team IWC in this year’s Kings of Trios. I’m sure we can find two other wrestlers with big online footprints for me to ride the coattails of tag with.

You know what’s next. The best damn banner on the site, bar NONE. Am I right or am I right?

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Backtalking

I Suck At Math/Ratings: … Yeah, OK, my bad. The general point still stands in terms of understanding the ratings. And yes, both Raw and SD are now on cable. But if you want to compare their ratings to other shows…

Over = Push: In an ideal world, that is the general idea. You do it logically and with some restraint, sure, but that is the general idea of booking, take talent that is over and make money off them. Sorry if that’s a ‘stale’ idea.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Who am I? Out of the three men who I’ve held tag team gold with, two have won world titles, the third has never won singles gold on a major scale. My sole title reign in a certain major wrestling company was equal to or less than 24 hours long. One of my theme songs has a title straight from early 90’s TV. My female managers outnumbered my male managers by more than 2 to 1, although the wrestlers I’ve managed have all been male. My most common ring name took part of it from my real name and the other part from a movie star. I was, at one point, the holder of a top 10 spot in the “longest runs in a Royal Rumble” ladder (if such a thing existed). A man who once held the title now held by the guy with a sock puppet as a finisher, (while I tended to use a slightly more impressive weapon in my hand) I am who?

Seth emailed the answer!

Out of the three men who I’ve held tag team gold with, two have won world titles, the third has never won singles gold on a major scale.
Sid Vicious (Lord Humongous), Ricky Steamboat / Buff Bagwell

I am who?
SHANE DOUGLAS

Although I should point out that Santino’s the US champ, and the >24 hours reign was the IC title.

Who am I? I am one of the Top 100 women that Cook had in his list this year. My real name is a combination of a WWE veteran’s name and something else tangentially related to wrestling. I’ve been trained by a few people and two large Indy schools. I debuted in 2009. A child of the 80’s, I’ve yet to hold any gold, and I’m fairly active as of now, against both men and women. A woman of mixed blood, I am who?

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?

We begin with Mike‘s quick question.

What tasks did Kevin Sullivan master exactly to become the “Taskmaster?”

Thanks

He took on the Task of destroying Hulkamania once and for all, and the Task of forming the Dungeon of Doom.

That was about as deep an explanation as anything in that angle got. At least they gave it a pay off interview about Hogan after he turned heel.

Kevin has a variety of questions.

I have a couple of disparate questions:

1. If Fusient was buying WCW then they’d be on the hook in getting the finances back in order. Nitro and Thunder still garnered decent ratings….What was the big deal? I take it TW/AOL feared they’d be stuck with a huge bill? Also, could Fusient have balked at the deal? I heard they’d halved their original amount when they saw the books back in Feb. 01 and saw the mess, and that many within Fusient, even Bischoff were having second thoughts?

Define big deal. I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking here. I mean, the thing is, while Nitro and Thunder were pulling in ratings a far cry from what they had been, they were still pulling in great ratings for a cable show. Just that they looked horrible in comparison to Raw/SD,

The problem was that Time Warner just didn’t like owning WCW, didn’t like running it. They didn’t want to put wrestlers in charge, and every non-wrestler they tried failed. Bischoff was a one off who was nominally a wrestler but could talk their language. WCW would still be part owned by TW, hell look stuff from the time.

Turner Broadcasting/Time Warner announced this morning the sale of World Championship Wrestling (WCW) to Fusient Media Ventures, an integrated media company.

Bedol said it will take time for viewers to notice Fusient’s influence on WCW programming. Some changes will be “evolutionary” and some will be “revolutionary,” he added. When asked if Fusient has plans to “re-launch” WCW, Bedol said, “no one is going to miss what we do; it’ll be drastic.”

The point was that TW still wanted the show since it did do good ratings, but this way they didn’t have to run it, just air the programming, while Bischoff had convinced people he could run it properly, like he did for that 2 or so years. So Fusient would take the risk of owning the company, TW could just air the programming and be done with it.

And then Jamie Kellner cancelled the TV time because he didn’t want Wrestling on his networks. And it all crashed down around them.

*cue the conspiracy theories that always crop up when discussing this*

If I’ve misconstrued the question here, I apologize, let me know and I’ll try again next week.

2. I have watched a lot of wrestling lately, I have seen WCW and WWF during the Wars make some seriously terrible decisions. But WWE seems to revel in it. Jobbing Lesnar seems a Goldberg move, pay 5 million and show them up….What the hell was WWE thinking with the Cena win and then him no-selling the injury? Also, all signs point to a HHH dismantling of Lesnar. I sometimes wonder if the WWE wants to make money as their ratings and stock have dropped, and yet they keep going back to the same well over and over.

We did establish this before, that WWE is thinking somewhat short term here, in that Brock puts over their guys to give them a rub and then leaves again. The Cena Injury thing we’ll get to a little later, but the thing is that when you are a publicly traded company, it seems that you change your booking philosophy. Even despite the fact that all the investors cared about last time were the Network and maybe the Wellness Policy (side note: Anyone else suspect that if Orton does end up leaving they’ll use him as some sort of proof the wellness policy is on the straight and narrow?), but they seem to have gone into month to month booking, focusing on short term ‘gains’ at the expense of any chance of long term improvement. Brock should have been a year long story of him returning, waging havoc, before finally being sent packing at WM by (insert hero here). Either by removing Cena for a few months or by beating him straight up, and going from there. But you can’t have Cena vanish, look what happens to the ratings when he’s not there…

Of course, it’s easy for me to sit here and say that they should go to their investors and explain, carefully, that wrestling sees ups and downs, that you need to invest in the future which means short term pain. Bit hard when your stock’s in a nose dive. Maybe if Vince bought back all the shares…

3. Is the WWE capable of making a decent heel? Bret Hart in 97 is as close as they have come, since the derailing of Vader thanks to Shawn the year before. HHH, and he dominated from 99 onwards but he was banging Stephanie, so that is it. WWE turns every heel into a coward who gets dominated in a feud, and then they become a monster face. In fact the faces: Sheamus, Orton (pre-heel Show), UT, Cena, HHH all act like the heels when they blast their opponents and usually stand tall at the end of the show. In singles matches when they need a win or to look strong (see Del-Rio at SD) they don’t show up and interfere and the face wins. For me it is the most backwards booking with the heel chasing and getting chumped by the face, and it has really made WWE vanilla. We all know Show will lose and all this dismantling of the midcard like Kane used to do will be for nothing, and help no-one….

Ah yes, I’ve seen this discussed elsewhere, and there’s a lot of discussion as to what and why this is. That said, I present to you Exhibit A in the argument for a decent heel.

Of course, there really isn’t an Exhibit B.

See, the thing is, that WWE seems to have 2, and only 2, mindsets.

One is the kid friendly mindset, seen with the Rock n Wrestling era and the current Cena-centric one, which is that faces are unstoppable god children and every heel is a whiny, cheating, slimy scumbag who has to use brass knuckles, poison mist and a crooked ref to get a 2 count.

And the other is the Attitude Era mindset that has lots of sex and violence and have everyone act in self interest and let the fans decide who to cheer and go from there, assuming you agree with them.

I’m simplifying here a bit, but the idea is clearly running through WWE that a heel cheats and lies and is bitchy. Now, is that because they are appealing to children, and children need heels that work like that? Is it a reflection of popular culture today, with tough, manly men on the way out? Is it simply a matter of timing, that all the heels are just better working that way, that we will get strong heels again, someday?

I don’t think there is one reason why, but I do think it is a problem. Slimy heels are good, you do need them. But you also need strong heels. A strong heel who beats people up and takes people out just makes the face who takes him out at the end that much bigger. The stronger the heel, the stronger the face at the end. Simple wrestling logic.

Plus it’s a problem that you can fix. You have some people in your developmental program who can certainly, to use a crude term, ‘fuck shit up’. Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, maybe even the KOW if you want a tag version. Hell, just have Del Rio snap and have him snap arms and he can go from pussy to maniac easily.

WWE are more than capable of making strong heels. They just seem to, right now, not want to.

Billy wants to further talk about the heel/face dynamic in a historical setting.

Hey Mathew, I have a question regarding Hulk Hogan

As a child, everything Hogan did seemed right, and I cheered, but how did the average adult fan view this? I can’t help but wonder if I can compare Hogan’s booking at the time to modern-day John Cena. Obviously, as a child I was a little Hulkamania, and nowadays most of Cena’s more vocal fans are children and women. Did the same dynamic happen with Hogan where he was loved by kids but hated by the 18-34 demo? If so, why book Hogan into a not-so-innocent role? It’s just difficult for me to figure it out. Afterall, Jesse Ventura was correct at WMIV calling out Hogan for his actions. And Sid was right in his anger of being cheated by Hogan at RR92. Again, the booking just doesn’t seem to make the most sense, if he’s your top “good guy”.

There’s two different points here, which actually highlight the general journey of Hulkamania.

In the mid to late 80’s, Hogan was king. Yes, some fans did not like Hogan (there was always fans who didn’t like him), but for every crowd that cheered when Bad News Brown threatened to kick Hogan’s head off or chanted DDT when Jake hit it on him, there were 30 that cheered every move he made. Hogan could do no wrong, and any heel stuff he did (and he did a lot), that was just desserts to the heels, Hogan was beloved by all, adults, kids, the works. Some crowds would have ‘smart’ fans or at least anti-Hogan parts, but there wasn’t a sizeable backlash from any one demographic.

Well, the average smart fan WAS a male 18-34, true, but it wasn’t because of their sex and age, rather because they were a ‘smart’ fan. But contrast that with RR92…

Where the fans had begun to turn on Hogan, and booed him costing Sid the match. It was obvious that they were counting on the ‘Everyone loves Hogan’ concept still counting. But the fans weren’t biting as much any more. And that led to Hogan/Flair not drawing, which led, totally coincidently I’m sure, to Hogan leaving after WM.

Hogan for a long time was cheered no matter what, so they could have him do whatever and the fans would follow. But the WWE rode that a little too long, and paid the price when they tried to go to the well a few too many times.

Paul wants to discuss original plans.

Hi Mathew,

1. Summerslam 1999 – Mostly, were they seriously going to go with Chyna vs. Austin as the main event and just got cold feet?

It’s odd, I’ve seen a couple of places say that Chyna was actually pencilled in, but I don’t believe it is true. The plan was for HHH/Austin, but then Austin refused to put Hunter over (there and then for a variety of reasons) and so they inserted Foley, with Russo then deciding that just putting Foley in wasn’t interesting enough so they did the bouncing #1 Contendership, which when looked at week to week actually was a fairly logical storyline. It’s just that it involved Chyna as #1 Contender. Had you replaced Chyna with a man it would be more fondly remembered, possibly.

2. Unforgiven 1999 – Why did Shamrock vs. Jericho not happen?

Because Shamrock had decided to leave to go back to MMA and they decided not to give him a PPV payday and instead had Mr. Hughes take him out instead to try and give Hughes some heat since it hadn’t worked the last dozen times, but this time for sure!

…

Do I really need a Chandler here?

2. Souled Out 2000 – Oh boy, where to start. Firstly, am I right in thinking it was supposed to be Benoit was supposed to face Jarrett for the US title in some type of match? And was it Hart/Goldberg before he injured himself or something else? And what the Triple Threat Theatre actually supposed to be?

OK, let’s go from the top.

The main event was supposed to be Sid V Hart for the World title.

And the other two are related, in that the plan was for Jarrett and Benoit to wrestle the Triple Threat Theatre, in that they’d have 3 separate matches for the US title, the title being on the line in all 3 matches (and if I had to guess, it would probably change hands in at least 2 of them…), Dungeon Rules (no ring ropes), Bunkhouse (No DQ), and Caged Heat (Hell In A Cell Rip-Off Modified Steel Cage Match Hell In A Cell Rip Off). But because of the three matches Jarrett had on Nitro against three legends, which ended with Benoit hitting a super headbutt on Jarrett, he got the concussion and had to pull out.

3. Spring Stampede 2000 – Obviously this was changed due to the ‘new’ Nitro with Russo and Bischoff. However, that was only a week before the PPV, what was the original card supposed to be? All I remember was Sid was Champ at the time and in the middle of a face run.

I don’t recall any card having been announced, let me check DDT Digest.

Well, actually the night after Uncensored, Sid turned heel on Hogan, oddly enough. But then a week later Russo and Bischoff were set to return, so it was a placeholder show, then Nitro was cancelled and then they reset everything. Nothing was announced, but Hogan/Sid was likely, and then… Lots of feuds, so you could guess at matches (Sting/Vampiro V Team Package, Jarrett V DDP, Modest V TAFKAPI, Harris Bros V Booker/Kidman and so on.)

4. Bash On The Beach 2000 – I’m sure you’ve answered this before, but was Booker T really supposed to win the title that night? Russo semi-shoot turned real shoot and Hogan left and sued but what was the original plan supposed to be? Was Booker going to win, defend the title a few times and then lose to someone for Hogan to beat? Or was going to go the Megapowers route and turn heel against him?

Oooh boy. This one’s complicated.

OK, Russo’s plan (before he went from worked half-shoot to full shoot) was this.

Russo orders Jarrett lays down for Hogan. Hogan pins him, then leaves with Bischoff after backstage argument with Russo. Everyone then loves Russo because he got rid of Hogan, for good, he claims. Booker wins title that night. Then down the line, Hogan would come back as the ‘true’ World Champion and feud with whoever had the title, the common theory being at Starrcade in a triple threat match with Booker and Jarrett actually, where Hogan would return and beat both of them. But then Russo went overboard with the speech and Hogan then sued.

5. Sin 2001 – They put Goldberg in the storyline where he has to beat his old streak to get a World title shot, yet he loses 35-0 here? Was this supposed to happen or was there some injury? Obviously, WCW folded soon after so there wasn’t any conclusion. Speaking of which….

This was part of the ‘Every Face Gets Removed’ angle wherein every major face in the company was taken out by Steiner or other means, which would lead to The Big Bang where they would all return and make sure Steiner lost. (And it was a slight hedge bet doing it this way, just in case Goldberg couldn’t be convinced to return, he was ‘retired’ now, and/or they could wait him out a little longer, if he came back against Steiner great, if not, they could bring him back after a few more months).

6. WCW folded – What was the next PPV WCW was supposed to put on? Any idea what matches were supposed to take place?

Apart from the name, The Big Bang, and general ideas as to what Bischoff was planning with the new WCW, no card or idea was floated, apart from Steiner getting his.

7. WWF King Of The Ring 2001 – Now, this was when I started watching properly, and I swear that I went to the King Of The Ring WWF website and saw them advertising Austin vs. HHH. Of course, it has been 11 years so I may be mistake. Still, it would make sense, as HHH was starting to turn on Austin for making so many mistakes. Prior to HHH’s injury, what was the plan for KOTR?

Austin V Taker.

Seriously, the original idea was that Austin was the stalker of Sara. DDP was a last second switch when he naively thought that the InVasion angle would be the most important angle and history and thus he wanted to be part of it.

But originally it was Austin/Taker, then it became Austin and Hunter taking on Jericho and Benoit in one combination or the other (reports vary as to who was going to be facing who. Jericho/Austin is the ‘accepted’ answer, but there is logic behind Benoit/Austin) and then we got the three way when Hunter busted his leg and Vince lost faith in the Chrises.

8. Invasion PPV – Before then ECW returns, WCW turns heel, WWE turns face episode of RAW, what was the card/plan for Invasion supposed to be? I seem to remember Mike Awesome vs. Rhino for the Hardcore title and Austin/Booker either Champion vs. Champion or some kind of unification.

Hey, I get to use this again!

Anyway, no-one has a clue what they had planned. After all, they didn’t. They weren’t even sure which WCW guys they had (Buff Bagwell was there for a couple weeks after all) so any planning was very vague and nothing was set.

9. Invasion, in general – Was it always supposed to end at Survivor Series? Did they have a larger game plan in mind (possibly ending at Wrestlemania 18?)

Hey, I don’t get to use that too often.

The larger game plan was to have 2 separate companies. The Brand Extension was 2.0 really, the first idea was for WCW and WWF to keep on going. Beyond that, it was again, week to week, nothing long term. They had NO idea what they were doing with that whole thing, more’s the pity.

10. Final one, I swear: Wrestlemania 18 – Was Hogan always going to end up as a face after WM18? If not, what was the original plan for the nWo?

Thanks,

Yes, but only because the fans were heading that way. The idea wasn’t for Hogan to turn face, but the fans decided he was, and he had the Red and Yellow gear there at WM. Again, the long term plans… Giving them a little too much credit there. This was, like now, somewhat panic stations, as they looked for ways to get back the WCW audience that they had failed to attract when they bought the company. A long term plan was not their focus, they just wanted the short term gain.