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411 Fact or Fiction 06.21.12: Big Johnny Endeavored, Punk’s Title Reign, Aries’ Decision, More

June 21, 2012 | Posted by Steve Cook

Hi, hello & welcome to 411 Fact or Fiction! I’m Steve Cook, and it’s been another wild week in the world of pro wrestling! WWE’s No Way Out PPV event resulted in John Laurinaitis being wished well in his future endeavors. CM Punk continued his WWE Title reign with a victory over Kane & Daniel Bryan and is now the longest-reigning champion since John Cena’s reign in 2006-07. Dolph Ziggler came up short in his World Title match, but most of the fans in attendance were rooting for the Show Off to knock off Sheamus in spite of his #Heel status. Ryback continued killing people. Monday night’s Raw in Long Island was an eventful evening, but conspicuous by his absence on the show was hometown hero Zack Ryder. Down in Orlando, TNA announced the competitors in this year’s Bound For Glory Series & Austin Aries was given a choice by Hulk Hogan: Continue being X Division Champion, or vacate the title for a shot at the World title at Destination X. Ring of Honor has a huge show in New York City scheduled this weekend, but most people are talking about their history of iPPV issues instead of what will be on the card.

I’ve invited two men that are considered among the most intelligent of their chosen profession to discuss these issues. First of all, 411wrestling.com’s WWE PPV recapper, author of Instant Access, Jeff Small’s favorite writer and a friend to millions, Scott Slimmer!

His opponent comes to us from the wonderful world of independent wrestling and is making his 411 writing debut! A former guest of the Greg DeMarco Show, this man wrestles across the Midwestern United States and will be part of the George Tragos/Lou Thesz Hall of Fame Weekend on July 13 & 14 in Waterloo, Iowa. Please welcome the Intellectual Punk, Tony Sly!

  • Questions were sent out very early Tuesday morning.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related questions.

    1. John Laurinaitis will not be back on WWE television anytime soon.

    Scott Slimmer: FICTION. I’d be more than happy to not see John Laurinaitis back on WWE television anytime soon, but unfortunately I have to believe that he’ll be back sooner rather than later. WWE has spent a year building the John Laurinaitis character (CM Punk first name-dropped him in the famous worked shoot promo on June 27, 2011), and for whatever reason, WWE is usually much more reluctant to give up on a character they’ve created than on an in-ring talent they’ve tried to push. John Laurinaitis may have been stripped of his power and abandoned by his allies, but I have the sneaking suspicion that there are still too many loose ends for him to completely disappear. Laurinaitis still has issues with Mr. McMahon and Triple H, and he still has potential allies in Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman. With it looking more and more likely that Triple H will face Brock Lesnar at SummerSlam, my guess is that Laurinaitis will become involved in the build to that match in one way or another. WWE may even try to tell the story of Laurinaitis trying to regain all that he’s lost, even though they would be missing the point that return-to-greatness stories always work better with heroes than with villains. On top of all of that, you have to keep in mind that John Laurinaitis is still a high ranking executive in WWE. If he wasn’t around WWE every day, then I might have more hope for his on-screen character disappearing. But we all know that over the years WWE has found it very hard to resist the temptation to put behind-the-scenes figures in front of the camera time and time again. And so for better or worse, I don’t think Raw was the end of the John Laurinaitis story. It was just the end of one chapter and the beginning of the next.

    Tony Sly: FICTION. John Laurinaitis has become an oddly compelling and entertaining character, despite his regular vocal flubs, that the WWE Universe loves to hate. The fans pay attention when he is on the screen, and they still want to see him get his ass kicked. The WWE model often relies on having a heel authority figure on TV at nearly all times, and Big Johnny has played this role well, so he is the likely candidate to continue playing it. As much as the IWC and smart fans would love to see Paul Heyman transition into the role of the requisite authority figure that serves as a thorn in the side to HHH, John Cena, and/or CM Punk; the bottom line is that Big Johnny has an established history feuding with these three and would not solicit the mixed reaction that Paul Heyman does.

    Score: 1 for 1

    2. CM Punk’s WWE Title reign has been memorable thus far.

    Scott Slimmer: FACT. If you’re only evaluating CM Punk’s WWE Title reign in terms of matches and feuds, then I suppose it’s possible to argue that his reign started off a bit slow with feuds against Alberto Del Rio, the Miz, and Dolph Ziggler. Punk had some good-to-great title defenses in December and January, but those matches weren’t over memorable due to the fact that his challengers didn’t seem like true threats to take his title. However, once we began to head down the Road to WrestleMania, Punk embarked on a feud with Chris Jericho that produced some amazing PPV matches. He followed that u pwith the IWC dream feud with Daniel Bryan, and then he started living our dreams by mixing business with crazy chicks. And so yes, if you’re only evaluating CM Punk’s WWE Title reign in terms of matches and feuds, then I do believe that it has been memorable thus far. But I also believe that Punk’s title reign has been bigger than just matches and feuds. Punk’s title reign marks the start of a new era in WWE history. I’m not saying that this is the Punk Era, but it does mark the end of the Cena Era. Punk has broken WWE out of the pattern that it has been in since 2005. He may not be the next face of the company, but he is the man who pushed the previous face of the company out of the title scene. He’s Superstar Billy Graham. He’s Bret Hart. He’s Brock Lesnar. And so yes, I absolutely believe that CM Punk’s WWE Title reign has been memorable thus far, because while he may not be the face of the company, he is the face of change.

    Tony Sly: FICTION. CM Punk has been involved in memorable matches with Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan and has even cut some memorable promos, his current WWE Title reign has NOT been highlighted as a top storyline nor has he been positioned as the top star in the company. The highlight of his reign has been a handful of top notch matches with Daniel Bryan and a feud with Chris Jericho that did not live up to its potential and disappointed a number of fans as opposed to main eventing Wrestlemania, feuding with Brock Lesnar, or being a consistent participant in the main event of RAW and PPVs.

    Score: 1 for 2

    3. Ryback needs to be fed three victims.

    Scott Slimmer: FACT. It’s no secret that I love Ryback. I love his matches on Raw, I love his matches on Smackdown, and I love his matches on PPV. His matches are so short and so one-sided that we stalwart IWC critics can’t even try to critique them by our normal standards. There’s no workrate or psychology or near falls involved, and so trying to evaluate a Ryback match is an exercise in futility. All we can do it sit back and enjoy watching a beast of a man kill jobbers, and that’s the beauty of Ryback. He forces us to just sit back and enjoy wrestling again. He started out by killing one jobber at a time. He’s moved on to killing them in pairs. I’ll admit that I’m still in awe every time he hits the Double Muscle Buster. I don’t care if those kids only weight a buck fifty each. That’s just flat out impressive every damn time. But now that we’ve seen jobbercide squared for a while, I do believe that it’s time to move on to jobbercide cubed. The beauty of this plan is that jobbers are a renewable natural resource. There are only so many under-card guys like Yoshi Tatsu, Hunico, and Heath Slater for Ryback to destroy if he were to move on to contracted talent. But jobbers? He could kill three jobbers a week for the next ten years without making a dent in the global population. The real question, of course, is whether the Triple Muscle Buster is humanly possible. I have no idea, but I sure as hell want to find out.

    Tony Sly: FICTION. Although feeding Ryback three victims could be entertaining and continue to make him look like a legitimate monster, WWE needs to advance this storyline before the fans sicken of it or lose interest. In addition, if the WWE is intent on eradicating or minimizing the “Goldberg” chants, they need to challenge Ryback and move past this simple and monotonous storyline. Ryback can continue to look like a strong, menacing, and credible threat to the top heels on the card, but it should to be done in a more creative and unique manner.

    Score: 1 for 3

    4. Zack Ryder should have been on Raw this week since it was in Long Island.

    Scott Slimmer: FICTION. The way that Zack Ryder has built a grassroots fan base almost entirely on his own over the course of the last eighteen months is definitely impressive. His fans haven’t seen him rewarded with the kind of success that they would like him to have, but many felt that he at least should have been featured on Raw when it was practically in his own backyard. In fact, it’s become almost a cliché to say that Zack Ryder is being punished for the fact that he built a fan base without WWE’s help. However, the truth of the situation is that WWE is actually helping Zack Ryder by not pushing him. Ryder’s appeal and popularity are based on his persona as the plucky underdog just trying to get a push. Sure, his fans cheered when he won the United States Championship at TLC last year, but the magic of his “little engine that could” routine would wear thing very quickly as champion. So his title was taken from him, his true love was take from him, his dignity was taken from him, and he wasn’t even featured on Raw in Long Island. And what did his fans do? The chanted “We want Ryder!” louder than ever. Zack Ryder got himself over in a very untraditional way, and rather than bury him, WWE is pushing him in a very untraditional way – as a martyr.

    Tony Sly: FACT. WWE’s primary objective is to make money and Zack Ryder makes them money by being able to sell a grip of merchandise. Zack Ryder sells more merchandise when he appears on RAW and when he appears before his hometown crowd live on RAW. In addition, the majority of the WWE Universe still wants to see Zack Ryder on RAW and see him be successful on TV, but that sentiment is fading fast, so this would have been a perfect opportunity to reinvigorate the character and once again create a groundswell of support for Zack Ryder before the window closes.

    Score: 1 for 4


    SWITCH!

    5. Dolph Ziggler should turn #Face.

    Tony Sly: FACT. For all intents and purposes, the fans are already well on their way to making Ziggler a face. Fans are beginning to cheer him and those cheers will only become louder and be heard from more fans as the summer progresses. WWE needs to strike while the iron is hot and pull the trigger now so they capitalize on Ziggler’s star power as the edgy face as they did with Steve Austin, The Rock, Randy Orton and CM Punk. Speaking of Orton, I suspect he will return as a heel or turn heel shortly after he returns thus freeing up the role of the edgy Smackdown face to be filled by Ziggler.

    Scott Slimmer: FICTION. Dolph Ziggler is poised to become the next breakout main event star in WWE, so I understand the notion of having him turn face in order to differentiate his mid-card heel tenure from his main even face tenure. However – and I’ll admit that this is very much just a gut feeling on my part – there are guys who simply work better as heels than they ever do as faces. This was always my feeling about Edge. I loved him as a heel, but he always felt forced and unnatural as a face. He was always just too damn cocky to be a believable face, but it worked perfectly when he was a heel. I tend to believe that the same is true of Dolph Ziggler. His Showoff gimmick works fantastically well as a heel, but it would have to be substantially tweaked as a face. We need look no further than The Great Randy Orton Debacle of 2004 to see what happens when a young heel is thrown into the main event scene as a face when he isn’t ready for that role. Dolph Ziggler isn’t ready to be a face main eventer, but he’s definitely ready as a heel. Let Ziggler have a shot at the top as a heel, and let him make a go of it. If it truly doesn’t work, then it may be time to turn him face for another shot. But right now, Ziggler is just too hot and too damn good as a heel to change a recipe that works.

    Score: 1 for 5

    6. You are excited about TNA’s Bound For Glory Series.

    Tony Sly: FICTION. Even though announcing that the BFG Series will have a set round-robin format demonstrates foresight and indicates TNA will avoid the inconsistencies (i.e. participants having different opponents and not wrestling the same number of matches) they encountered last year, this also breeds predictability and less excitement. More importantly, the current list of participants is lackluster at best and doesn’t elicit much excitement from this intellectual punk. Robbie E. and D’Angelo Dinero have no business being participants whereas omitting Austin Aries, Sting, Kazarian, and Abyss/Joseph Park definitely minimizes the BFG Series’ “wow factor.”

    Scott Slimmer: FACT. TNA’s Bound For Glory Series is an interesting concept, and it does help create a sense of continuity and cohesion throughout months of booking within the promotion. Last year, the Bound For Glory Series was the catapult for Bobby Roode’s entry into the main event scene. Hey may not have won the title as a direct consequence of the Bound For Glory Series, but it was definitely that series which positioned him for his eventual title win. This year, the field looks even stronger than it did last year. I’d saw two-thirds of the entrants are legitimate title contenders, and the depth of talent in this year’s field should make for some great matches along the way.

    Score: 1 for 6

    7. Austin Aries will drop the TNA X Division Title to challenge for the World Title at Destination X.

    Tony Sly: FACT. Austin Aries is focused on becoming a successful main event talent in TNA as soon as possible. He is 34 and his window for maximizing his time left as a high level performer and making as much money as possible is closing, so he has no choice but to take a risk and give himself an opportunity to shine in a TNA World Heavyweight Title match on PPV. On top of that, there is no one in the X Division for him to feud with that will elevate his status in TNA. Aries is very confident and is intent on showcasing his charisma and in-ring ability and the best place for him to do that right now is in a main event PPV match with Bobby Roode. Aries dropping the X Division Title will also allow TNA to give the division a much needed reboot that can lead to building new stars.

    Scott Slimmer: FACT. TNA has put Austin Aries in an interesting situation by making have to choose between a sure thing in his X-Division Title and a chance to challenge for the World Title. However, given that the offer has been made, I have to believe that Aries will take it. There is value in the X-Division Title, but the highest mountain in TNA is still the World Title. Given the position in which Aries now finds himself, he would end up looking weak and cowardly if he were to pass up a shot at the World Title in order to retain the X-Division Title. He would essentially be saying that he has no faith in himself and his abilities, and there’s no reason for the fans to become invested in a star who doesn’t believe in himself. With all of that being said, I’m not at all convinced that Aries will actually win the World Title, and if he doesn’t there’s nothing preventing him from returning to X-Division contention. But taking a shot at the World Title and coming up short will always be a better decision than not taking the shot at all.

    Score: 2 for 7

    8. Ring of Honor’s Best in the World iPPV will go off without a hitch.

    Tony Sly: FICTION. Since Sinclair purchased ROH, the company has not pulled off an iPPV without a hitch so on face value alone, conventional wisdom suggests that ROH does not currently have the production talent, technical expertise, necessary resources and equipment, or the experience at producing snafu-free iPPVs to do it at Best in the World. On top of that, ROH has not had a realistic and error-free trial run with the high number of viewers that they will likely have on Sunday due to all of the Border Wars customers who have the option of watching this iPPV for FREE. All in all, this is a recipe for disaster and in light of their recent debacles, even minor production or streaming issues will be magnified by critical and jaded customers.

    Scott Slimmer: FICTION. This is such a loaded question. In my mind, “without a hitch” means absolutely no technical problems, essentially making the iPPV quality similar in reliability to a WWE PPV stream. While I do believe that ROH has gone to great lengths to address as many technical problems as possible in preparation for Best in the World, the simple fact is that history isn’t on their side here. They’ve had a long string of notorious technical glitches with their iPPVs, and it’s simply too much to ask of any company their size to fix everything all at once. I believe that Best in the World will be free of major technical complications, but minor problems will almost certainly persist. If I had to take a guess, my hunch would be that there will be a few audio problems during the show, but such issues are often transient and easily fixed. So will Best in the World go off “without a hitch”? Probably not. But will it be a big step in the right direction? I bet it will.

    Final Score: 3 for 8

    Our competitors this week don’t seem to agree on much, but both men presented intellectually strong arguments for their side. Whose side are you on? What are your opinions on these topics? Let us know down in the comment section! Thanks so much to Scott & Tony for participating, and we’ll see you back here next week for more 411 Fact or Fiction!

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