Ask 411 Wrestling 08.22.12: Books, Barking, Boobs, More!

Welcome to the only column I’m posting this night on 411mania, Ask 411 Wrestling! I am your poster, Mathew Sforcina, and tonight’s column is brought to you by caffeine. Great big swags of it. Which does mean that, while I’m not pulling out the dreaded bold underline phrase, I am limiting my ‘intense research for limited payoff’ questions this week.

Marley is all over the place.

Hey Mathew,

1) I have noticed two very different wrestlers wear mouthguard’s. My country’s very own Dragon Gate export PAC, and of course the one-and-only Kurt Angle. Why exactly did these guys start wearing them? Realism? Teeth problems? No doubt, Kurt Angle has helped sell a few custom ones, regardless if it is a slightly strange merchandise item.

Angle’s an easy one, in that it helps to add to his ‘real athlete’ feel and, more importantly, it covers up his plate. See, Kurt has a couple of teeth missing, and when he first started out, it was a good way to see if he was jobbing or not, if you looked to see if the false teeth were in or not. If they were in, that would mean he’d be smiling, and thus he was winning. But now he uses the mouthguards to avoid this, and to lessen the risk of further injury to the teeth via dislodged plates.

PAC on the other hand, I could not find anything on. Perhaps he feels that, given how much he flies about, he’d like some security to avoid breaking a tooth. Fair enough too. Although if any reader happens to know this one, feel free to leave a comment below.

2) I have recently begun obsessively buying ‘Tagged Classics’ DVD’s, pretty much all late 80’s/early 90’s WWF (Expect further questions as I get through them!) This question, however, pertains to the actual manufacturing of the DVD’s. I was quite disappointed to pop in my ‘Survivor Series 1988/1989’ discs, only to find some of the matches are heavily clipped. Regardless if these matches may send me into a deep coma, I still want the option to watch all matches in their entirety. I read somewhere, however, that the complete PPV’s no longer exist, due to the original tapes being recorded over. I find this simply shocking and unbelievable, even for technology in those days. Is this true? I would be interested to find out if the complete ‘Survivor Series’ boxsets have the full matches? I haven’t even got onto my other late 80’s DVD’s yet…

It is true that some old shows are lost to time due to tapes being reused, damaged or in some cases just thrown out (thank you so much Ole Anderson…). This is hardly unique to wrestling, the BBC is notorious for having lost many classic tapes of Doctor Who and Not Only, But Also via taping over. They save a few dollars per tape after all…

However, while some wrestling matches are lost to time, Survivor Series shows are not among them. If you purchase any of the Survivor Series anthologies, either the full set or the 87-91 mini-box set, you will find the shows completely unedited.

3) Possibly more of an opinion question. Different cultures crowd reactions has always interested me. US/Canada is known as loud and forthcoming. UK fans…well, kind of the same, but maybe even more enthusiastic (probably because high profile wrestling is much less frequent and far between in our neck of the woods). Japanese fans are my personal favourite. They are quiet and respectful throughout a match, but really pop big when they are impressed, in my opinion making the pops more meaningful. I love that building crescendo of shock and awe when a Japanese crowd react to something big. And then… there’s Mexican fans. I mean, they just seem to be constantly talking, and well, not reacting. To anything. Like they’ve seen it all before and would rather be somewhere else. This is just based on AAA and CMLL footage I have seen over the years. Be it limited. Anyway, the question is, have you got any theories as to why this might be? And maybe for the other cultures aswell? Also, what’ are the crowds like down there in Oz?

Thanks,

It comes down to cultural differences, in terms of how the cultures view the product, both in terms of what it is and how they should react.

I mean, in Japan, it’s a respect thing, they generally are quiet because they respect the work being done, and react only when, as you say, something massive happens, be it a Ganso Bomb, a Stan Hansen lariat, or just something blowing up. Wrestling is treated as a respected tradition, so they react with suitable respect, applauding and so forth.

Whereas in most of the English speaking world, be it America, Canada, UK and Australia, they react in the way we have come to expect from fans, cheering and booing and chanting and doing all the things that as wrestlers we go out there and try to get.

Whereas Mexican fans are actually in the middle. They aren’t quite as quick to make noise as the English speakers, but they do react to the larger spots. They aren’t as involved all the time, in a way. I could try and make some sort of justification, but all I’ll say is that they react in a way that is a mixture of the above two and leave it at that.

So yeah, it’s just down to how the fans view the product. At one end, it’s a sport that deserves respect. At the other end, it’s a show that you’re supposed to chant and scream and carry on at. And some countries can be somewhere in the middle.

Tom asks about Vampiro.

Great column, long time reader, first time questionner. Hope I am not asking something that has not already been covered.
Why did Vampiro never have a run in the then WWF or now WWE? I recently watched Vampiro: Angel, Devil, Hero and he seems like a really interesting character that could have been over huge.
Interestlingly Sheamus (well before his WWE time) has a small appearance in it when Vampiro goes to Ireland to do some independent shows.

Vampiro is, by his own admission, very outspoken and headstrong. Vampiro is not afraid to tell you what he’s thinking, what he thinks about you, where you should go and what to do when you get there. Plus, he also has something of a reputation for being rather full of himself and flat out making stuff up about bookings and his past.

So to take that and put it into the WWE’s locker room is not going to lead to good things. Heck, I don’t mind him as a worker, but he’s very much a troublemaker backstage with his attitude. So he just wouldn’t work out in WWE. Plus for most of his career he was doing very well in Mexico, enough to arguably think that going to WWE would be a bad move, at least in the short-mid term.

But mostly it’s the troublemaking backstage.

Chris asks about the Summer Of Poochie.

Love the column.

In 2002-2003 during Triple H’s run through the ECW/WCW main event (RVD, Bubba Ray Dudley, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Chris Jericho, Booker T, Kane) was there anyone besides Goldberg that was realistically slated to take the big gold belt off of HHH and if so who had the most backstage support to do it?

Ah yes, the Triple H World Title Reign. Well, Reigns, most people forget the HBK 1 month title run. That said, let’s go from the top. Oh, and like most stuff that is backstage gossip and rumor, this is all (mostly) conjecture, we’ll never know the truth.

The original plans that the writers had was to have two brands, two champions. Smackdown had the WWE title, held by Brock Lesnar, while Raw would have the IC title built up, which is why they unified all those titles into it, the idea was to get it up to the same level as the WWE title, and that was to be held by… RVD.

And then it was decided that the title should be a World Title, so it was created, and then the IC title folded into it as well to really establish it. Oh, and since he was the biggest star on the roster, clearly HHH had to hold it so as to establish it.

So then, that’s how Hunter got the title. As how those he feuded with…

RVD: As I said, RVD was the original choice to be the champ, but they decided against him, although there was a push to have him beat HHH at Unforgiven, but that was decided against. So yeah, the writers were really high (no pun intended) on RVD.

Kane: And then when RVD was mooted, the writers then pushed for Kane to unify the belts, have Kane win the World Title and unify it with the IC one. But that too was eventually decided against, and HHH won both to unify them and ‘help establish them’.

Bubba Ray: Bubba wasn’t going to win the title, but he was going to get probably a PPV shot at least. They were building to a big match when, by his own admission, he nearly injured Hunter (it was in a Botchamania, he was set to powerbomb Hunter through a table, but his left arm just went dead and so he dropped him) and thus next week they blew the angle off. But he wasn’t going to win the title.

Nash: No, there was no real plans for Nash to win, to my knowledge.

Scott Steiner: Supposedly Steiner was set to win the title at WM in a last chance match, the original plan was for him to win at WM. But due to his matches sucking, and sucking quite badly, that got changed.

Chris Jericho: Uh, no…

Booker T: Yes and no. The plan was always to have Goldberg win the title at some point when they signed him. However, HHH, upon hearing that, declared that having Booker win the title then drop it back to him again would be bad for business, so that was changed. Now I do get that, but two things. One, they’d do the race card thing, so that meant HHH should not have won. And two, funny how the short title reign of HBK didn’t lead to a bad for business situation, huh?

We then have Goldberg, which while he won the title, still had the Summerslam 2003 debacle, which still hurts my head. OK, you’ve got Goldberg because you’re desperate for money, fair enough. And you’re building to HHH/Goldberg for the title at Summerslam by having Hunter and his cronies beat down Goldberg a lot. OK, I don’t think you quite understand what made Goldberg a star, but OK… And then Hunter pulls his groin, and can’t really do a proper match.

Hmmm. So then, you’ve got a guy who made lots and lots of money by squashing people dominantly, and your heel world champion can do little more than either squash or be squashed. What do you do? Why you add in an elimination chamber and 4 other guys to cover, then have the heel go over and give Goldberg the ‘rub’ at the next show.

*head bangs into desk several times*

Weird how a company that produced Hulk Hogan couldn’t work out how to do it in 2003, huh?

So yeah, some guys were set to win the title, some weren’t. All got pushed back due to various factors.

Travis asks about WM8.

ok so I’m watching Wrestlemania 8, and immediately after the Flair/Macho man battle, we see that they announced Hogan as number one contender and Sid gets pissed. then he ditches Hogan in a tag match against Flair and Undertaker. OK fine. So how did Hogan not wind up fighting for the title? wouldn’t that have either led to a triple threat match or Sid being Hogan’s next challenger eventually? how did we get to Hogan deciding instead of fighting for the title, that he would rather face Sid? they didn’t explain it very well in the DVD.

Well yeah, the original plan was for Sid to become the next big bad guy to challenge for Hogan’s title after Hogan beat Flair at WM to win the title. But then Flair/Hogan didn’t work on the house circuit, and Hogan decided to take some time off, so they rebooked on the fly. What they did was that the week after the SNME where Justice bailed on Hogan…

The next week, on a special edition of ‘Update’ with Gene Okerlund, he announced that because of Sid bailing on him, plus Sid destroying the Barber Shop, that Hogan was now going to wrestle Sid Justice at WM in order to stop him, he forfeited his title shot in order to get revenge on Sid. And so, Randy Savage became the #1 contender to the WWF title.

So yeah, in storyline, Hogan hated Sid just so damn much he gave up the title shot to get his hands on Sid.

My Damn Opinion

Nightwolf asks about why things have changed.

Long time reader, first time asking questions

1. After WWWF/WWF/WWE was run by 3 generations of McMahons, why would Vince give control of the WWE to Triple H? I would have thought he would have passed it to his son Shane seeing how the company was passed down from father to son. It would have made sense to me. Do you think the WWE would change with Triple H in charge as opposed to Shane McMahon?

Well it’s not like he isn’t his son, he is a son now, just in law. And in many ways Triple H is, as I understand it, the kind of son Vince always wanted. Vince and Hunter get on really well, as they share the same interests, working out and sports, and have the same mentality when it comes to life. I know this kind of a switch from talking about Triple Poochie a short while ago to this, but it’s true, he’s done some bad things in the past, but only the most cynical bastard says that he doesn’t genuinely love Steph and is only there for money or power.

Shane left because he wanted to make his own path, supposedly. But the accepted logic is that he saw that Steph/Hunter were going to take over (since Vince sees Hunter as being more like him/more like the guy he wants to be) so he left before he got kicked out. I’m sure Vince would have been OK with Shane taking over, it’s just that he would prefer for Hunter and Steph to do it now.

As for differences, of course there will be, but the extent is hard to judge before we see it happen. Hunter, as I’ve said, old school, while Shane is very much a forward thinker. Shane’s the one who brought in Russo. Shane’s the one who was into MMA. Shane’s the one who was pushing for the Global Domination strategy. Assuming Hunter takes over, he’ll probably bring the WWE back to old school thinking, ground it and build it simply but effectively. Shane would almost certainly take a plunge into something far riskier, but possibly more rewarding. But we’ll never know.

So yeah, although Shane leaving wasn’t great, it’s just a case of Hunter being more of a ‘suitable heir’ than Shane, rather than anything negative Shane did.

2. Back in the old days of wrestling, you had to be 230lbs to be considered a Heavyweight to challenge for the World Heavyweight Title. HBK was not a Heavyweight when he won the big title from Bret Hart. When did wrestling promotions decide that lightweight guys could be World Champion ( I.E. HBK, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Etc)?

WWF decided lightweight guys could be champion when the US government began to investigate steroids inside the WWF. Everyone else had already realised that if a guy was talented, he could be smallish.

But yeah, only reason Bret and Shawn got the title was because Vince had to tone down on the steroid freaks because the government was taking an interest. Most everyone else was more focused on talent and ability than size.

Jason has a simple question.

Do you think WWE has any idea what to do with Ryback. This guy could be huge but i have zero faith they can pull it off

They don’t seem to have any idea what to do with 95% of their roster, Ryback included. That said, Ryback took a long time to get over and they managed to do it eventually, the fans chant and stuff now, so at least that’s done. True, feuding with Jinder Mahal doesn’t help (although it does get a guy who’s knocked me out, Robert Barnes, on Smackdown.)

But still, they managed to get him over. More than they can say for most guys. The problem is that they keep doing 50-50 booking, they keep having matches that don’t help anyone, like having Clay destroy Sandow then Sandow wins the match then Clay beats him up more. 50-50 booking just results in everyone look like losers. Ryback at least won matches, although going back to jobbers is not a good move. Either get him a real program (Ryback and Clay V Sandow and… McIntyre?) or bump him up to three jobbers or something. Move him on, just don’t keep him stuck.

Michael really wanted my opinion on this.

As far as the anonymous GM goes, I had a perfect dream scenario:

Like I said, just my ultimate pipe dream

… Eh, if we’re going that route, I’d prefer Foley, if only because that would mean, retroactively, he was running both Impact and Raw. But that said, WWE would NEVER bring in someone from TNA like that. A talent coming in from TNA onto the main roster, maybe. But bringing in someone and playing off a gimmick/storyline from TNA? No chance.

And Sting as the GM does leave one minor problem: The Anon GM was heel. The time off makes us forget that, I think. Yes it was a very mild heelness, he wavered, but how do you explain Sting protecting Cole so much? Do you say Cole’s actually a Christian? I mean, Foley you can explain away since he’s insane. And sure, Sting’s not Mr Sensible right now, but if you’re going the Sting/Taker route, you kinda want Sting as the sensible last name standing.

But hey, as pipe dreams go, it’s a biggie.

Anonomys asks a deep question to end us off this week.

Hey Matt,

Thanks for your future response.

I’m sure that there are people like that out there, and some might well reply (although several more will probably attack you for the comment you made about commentators). But as for why, there is no one simple reason or explanation. Some people leave because of one major act, some push or match or title change that breaks their back, they swear off it forever after some major event. Others, it is more a gradual, over time wear down where they will miss a Raw, then another, and soon they never watch.

Some people will still keep tabs just to remind themselves why they left, or to see if the reason they left remains. If you left because you hate the PG era, you’d check in every so often and see if they are still doing it.

Some people just keep tabs out of momentum, they read the Raw recaps because they always have, that’s what they do of a Tuesday morning.

(I guess you could also just really love the site, but that’s a given.)

But really I think that, although there is no catch all one off reason, there is one that I think most people will on some level agree with.

Wrestling can be pretty good. And these periods can come at any point. I mean, for the most part TNA is on a real roll right now, putting out great TV and better PPV. And sure, WWE sucks right now, but they have all the talent to produce a superb wrestling product if they put their minds to it.

Wrestling is cyclical, in terms of quality. If the company doesn’t crash and burn, eventually it will find a new hot star, a new talent, a new angle. And then it’ll become awesome again. Maybe, just maybe, you’re still checking because deep down you’re hoping to see that Raw and PPVs begin to be really cool again, and you might check it out and find that it is indeed awesome again, and you can watch once more.

Maybe.

I dunno, if you’re one of these guys, tell me below why you still read 411mania and follow the product if you aren’t fans. I’ll collate and report back next week. Till then!