411 Fact or Fiction 04.11.13: WrestleMania, Dolph, Fans, More

1. You got your money’s worth from WrestleMania XXIX.

Jeff Small: FACT, though I can easily see why someone who paid $70 on PPV would say FICTION. But for someone who was there live (and did not arrive late (no Danny Lamas issues for me)), I can easily say I had a good time at the show. Just being there to witness the awesome sets that are built, the pageantry and live spectacle of all of the fireworks and pyro, and the fans (when they decided to make some noise) is definitely worth the price of admission even if the match quality was nothing more than average. Sure WM29 will not go down as one of the best Manias of all time. But was it the worst Mania? No. Was it even the worse Mania that I have been to? Probably not (27 and 25 were not great shows either (must be a Odd number thing)). WrestleMania is still a great attraction every year and I look forward to New Orleans for 30.

Scott Slimme : FACT/FICTION. Just to be clear, my answer here has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of WrestleMania XXIX. The show certainly had both good and bad moments, but that’s not what really matters here. The show wasn’t as bad as some people said it was, and it wasn’t as good as some other people said it was, but again, that’s almost completely beside the point here. The point here is that no wrestling pay-per-view is worth $59.99, let alone $69.99 for freaking HD. We all seem to have become desensitized to staggering PPV prices, but just take a minute and stare at those numbers. Those are ludicrous prices! I understand that WrestleMania is the biggest show of the year, and I understand that it was four hours long. But for $60 you could go to five or six movies, buy three or four DVDs, or watch cable television for a month, and yet Vince McMahon asked us to pay that much for a little less than four hours of professional wrestling. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that something has to be done about these alarming prices. I’m not saying that we should boycott the product or that I’ll never order another WWE PPV. I’m just saying that when you take a step back and look at the situation, it truly is startling that we’ve gotten to the point where we’re will to pay that kind of money for an evening’s worth of entertainment. I understand that WWE pays their wrestlers well, and I understand that they have higher production costs than any other wrestling promotion. I even understand that it makes sense for them to keep increasing PPV prices as long as the fans are willing to keep paying those prices. I just can’t help but be reminded of the words (word?) of a great man. DAMN. Just… DAMN

Score: 0 for 1

2. Triple H should have defeated Brock Lesnar.

Jeff Small: FACT, if only because the WWE did not make the “career threatening” stipulation seems believable. It is really tough to sell that stip when Trips only worked a couple of matches over the course of the year. Does it even matter if your career is up if you cannot only come back for Mania? (I guess we can ask Undertaker that question in a couple years.) When both Flair and HBK did it, there was meaning behind it (HBK wanting one more shot at the Streak and Flair was forced to fight due to his on-again/off-again rivalry with Vince). But not this time. So if the stipulation is meaningless, does it really matter who wins? Or do you wrap up the feud with a tidy bow by having the unstoppable heel get his comeuppance? The match result was fine with me.

By the way, if Triple H decides to become an active wrestler again due to his topping of Brock Lesnar, then Triple H’s win is totally validated. I know not many people are clamoring for his return but honestly, have him win a bunch of high profile matches now (heck, he can feud and beat Cena for all I care) before really going all out with a Career stip at Summerslam or even next year’s Mania.

Scott Slimmer: FACT. This is a tough one for me, because I think there are valid arguments to be made on both sides. WWE paid Brock Lesnar a very large amount of money to wrestle a very small number of matches, and you can argue that they need to book him strong so that the fans will continue to view him as a monster and a special attraction. I mean, how can Lesnar still be called the Next Big Thing when he lost two of his three matches in the last year? However, that being said, Triple H is the future of WWE. His days in the ring are numbered, but he is the man that will inherit the reins of power from Vince McMahon. He needs to command respect not just from the boys in the back, but also from the fans. I mean, how could we ever respect a man that vowed to avenge his wife, his father-in-law, his best friend, and himself but only ended up bloody and broken in the middle of the ring? Like I said, I think there are valid arguments to be made on both sides. What it comes down to for me is the fact that this wasn’t the right time or the right way to end Triple H’s career. If Triple H’s career hadn’t been on the line, then I would probably have been in favor of him losing to Lesnar. However, given the fact that the stipulation was in place, this wasn’t how Triple H’s career should have come to an end. Say what you will about him, but he deserves to go out respectfully and in style, just like his best friend did. Triple H’s final match needs to be a farewell to the ring and a transition to his new role behind the scenes. It needs to be a moment that will provide closure on one phase of his career and lead seamlessly into the next phase of his career. That time will come soon enough, but it was definitely the right decision not to have it come at the hands of Brock Lesnar.

Score: 1 for 2

3. CM Punk vs. Undertaker should have been the main event.

Jeff Small: FICTION. C’mon Cook, that statement is completely absurd. It’s placement on the card was great and with a eight man tag to sandwitch it from HHH/Lesnar, that match might not have paled as much in comparison (at least in terms of heat).

Scott Slimmer: FICTION. If you’re the kind of traditionalist who believes that the main event should always be the best match on the card, then I could definitely see why you would believe that CM Punk vs. the Undertaker should have been the main event. Sure, there are those who believe that Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar or the Rock vs. John Cena were better than CM Punk vs. the Undertaker, but Punk / Taker was absolutely the match of the night in my book. However, that being said, I don’t think it was good enough to warrant the extra scrutiny that would come with taking the main event position away from the Rock and Cena. I’m the kind of traditionalist who believes that the WWE Championship Match should almost always be the main event at WrestleMania (and, for that matter, every WWE PPV), but there are rare circumstances when another match on the card truly demands the top spot. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI definitely deserved that spot. I would argue that Triple H vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVIII deserved that spot, even though it didn’t get it. But when you give away the main event spot carelessly, you end up with historical footnotes like Lawrence Taylor vs. Bam Bam Bigelow from WrestleMania XI. My point is that while Punk / Taker was a great match and my personal choice for match of the night, it wasn’t good enough to stand up to the scrutiny that would have surrounded it if it had taken the main event spot away from Rock, Cena, and the WWE Championship. Punk / Taker was simply better served by not being in the main event. It’s always better to not be in the main event and have people say that you should have been than to be in the main event and have people say that you shouldn’t have been.

Score: 2 for 3

4. Ryback feuding against John Cena will only increase his popularity.

Jeff Small: FACT, especially if he can take the title from Cena. I doubt anyone’s popularity will wane by being in the #1 feud on Raw with the face of the company. Now if he comes up a few more times short on PPV, I can only imagine a dancing tag team in the future with FAN DAN GO. Or even worse, the return of Skip Sheffield.

Scott Slimmer: FICTION. The problem with feuding with John Cena is that Cena’s famous split crowd reaction truly is a double-edged sword. If you’re a heel feuding with Cena, then the marks and women and children will boo you while the smart/ks cheer for you. Unfortunately, if you’re a heel, then you want everyone booing you, not just the women and children. If you’re a face feuding with Cena, then maybe the marks and women and children will cheer for you, but they’ll probably still cheer louder for Cena. Maybe the smart/ks will cheer for you, or maybe they just won’t give a damn at all. And regardless of who cheers for you and who boos you when you’re feuding with John Cena, there’s absolutely no guarantee that any of that fan reaction will carry over into your next feud. Because like it or not, when you’re feuding with John Cena, the fans are really just reacting to Cena. Cheering for John Cena’s opponent is really just another way for the fans to boo John Cena. Maybe Ric Flair could wrestle a broomstick, but John Cena could have a three month feud with a broomstick. The matches might suck, but Cena could make the feud happen, and he could get at least half of the fans to cheer for that damn broomstick. And so while Ryback may see his popularity temporarily surge while he’s feuding with Cena, I have to question what happens next. What happens to those cheers when he’s feuding with CM Punk or Chris Jericho or Dolph Ziggler? Feuding with John Cena is like living in a bubble, and the real test of a wrestler’s popularity is what happens when he emerges from that bubble. For every CM Punk who finds a way to use Cena as a springboard, there are a dozen R-Truths who slide right back into their same spot when their feud with Cena is over.

Score: 2 for 4

SWITCH!

5. The Rock will compete at WrestleMania XXX.

Scott Slimmer: FACT. Yes, the Rock has refused to confirm whether or not he will compete at WrestleMania XXX. Yes, the Rock suffered a number of injuries during his match at WrestleMania XXIX. Yes, the next morning he quietly slipped out the back door like he was ashamed of having a one night stand with a man in jorts. But just because there seems to be some tension between the Rock and WWE right now, I still have to believe that he will compete at WrestleMania XXX. He may have skipped Raw somewhat unexpectedly this week, but he did seem to have legitimate reasons for wanting to get home as soon as possible. But more to the point, WWE has forgiven far less prominent stars for far more serious offenses on numerous occasions in the past. The simple truth is that WWE still considers the Rock to be a major draw, and my guess is that they’ll do everything in their power to get him back for WrestleMania XXX. WrestleMania XXX is going to be a big show, even by WrestleMania standards. It will be the 30th anniversary of WWE’s trademark event (well, actually the 29th anniversary, but you know WWE will bill it as the 30th), and WWE will want to get as much star power as possible for the show. The bigger question is whether the Rock would want to come back next year. Regardless of how he may feel right now, my gut says that he’ll want to return to the grandest stage of them all. I believe him when he says that he loves performing for the fans, and even the cynics have to admit that wrestling at WrestleMania is a good way to hype whatever film Rock will be promoting at the time. The bottom line is that having the Rock compete at WrestleMania XXX would be good for both the Rock and WWE, and I think they’re both well aware of that.

Jeff Small: FACT. God, these statements are easier than UCONN’s path to victory Tuesday night.

Editor’s Note: You broke my heart, Jeff. You broke my heart.

Score: 3 for 5

6. Dolph Ziggler cashing in his Money in the Bank briefcase on Raw was the right call.

Scott Slimmer: FACT. Let’s start by analyzing this statement assuming we didn’t know how the fan reaction would play out on Raw. Just looking at the merits of having Ziggler cash in at WrestleMania vs. on Raw, I can certainly see why some people would have liked to have seen Ziggler walk out of WrestleMania as the champion. WrestleMania is the biggest show of the year, and there’s certainly a case to be made that Ziggler has earned the right to have the most important moment of his career come on the grandest stage of them all. That being said, I tend to believe that having Ziggler cash in on Raw allowed WrestleMania to be the end of one story and Raw to be the beginning of another story. WrestleMania was Alberto Del Rio’s moment. He defeated Jack Swagger and got retribution for Ricardo Rodriguez. It was the culmination of the entire Del Rio / Rodriguez / Swagger / Colter storyline, and having Ziggler cash in at WrestleMania would have overshadowed that sense of closure. The Raw after WrestleMania is traditionally used to begin the storylines for the next year, and that’s exactly what happened when Ziggler cashed in Money in the Bank. In hindsight, the argument for having Ziggler cash in on Raw is only strengthened by those crazy Raw fans. There probably would have been a pop if Ziggler had cashed in at WrestleMania, but it would have been nowhere near as thunderous as it was when he cashed in on Raw. The fans at WrestleMania were far less engaged than the fans at Raw, and it’s much more difficult to achieve a truly thunderous pop in an enormous open-air stadium. Ziggler’s moment was made so much more memorable by the Raw fans, and to me that means having him cash in his Money in the Bank briefcase on Raw was definitely the right call.

Jeff Small: FICTION. Dolph’s win should have been a Wrestlemania moment and the show really needed that newsworthy piece to justify purchasing the DVDs or repeat PPVs. As it stands, it is just a great moment on a great Raw and will hopefully be included on a DVD one day.

Score: 3 for 6

7. Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan will be the first trio to defeat The Shield.

Scott Slimmer: FICTION. After the Shield defeated Randy Orton, Sheamus, and the Big Show at WrestleMania, I truly wondered what trio (other than an extremely unlikely Flair / Anderson / Blanchard reunion) was left that could possibly defeat them. That question was answered on Monday night when Daniel Bryan and Kane came to the Undertaker’s rescue and chased off the Shield. I have absolutely no doubt that the Undertaker, Kane, and Daniel Bryan could and would defeat the Shield in a three-on-three tag team match, and I have no doubt it would actually be an extremely entertaining match. Unfortunately, I simply don’t think we’re ever going to see that match. My guess is that the Shield’s planned attack on the Undertaker was used as a way to get Team Hell No involved with the Shield. I don’t expect the Undertaker to stick around much longer or wrestle again before next year’s WrestleMania, but Monday night’s events set up a feud between Team Hell No and the Shield. I suppose Team Hell No could find a third member for yet another three-on-three tag team match, but I’d like to see the Shield challenge them for the WWE Tag Team Championship. The Shield could use the much beloved Freebird Rule, and that could add an interesting twist to their story. They’ve been dominant in three-on-three matches, but what if they aren’t as cohesive in traditional two-on-two matches? Would a weak link in the team be exposed, and would that give him the chance to break off as a singles wrestler? Or could the Shield make a run with the belts before infighting causes them to self-destruct? There are some interesting stories to be told there, but I simply don’t see any of those stories involving the Shield losing to the Undertaker, Kane, and Daniel Bryan.

Jeff Small: FACT, and I want this to happen. I love the Shield and I love how they have defeated all of their challengers. But it is time for the six man tag matches to cease and for some character development to happen. And a loss will only expedite that.

Score: 3 for 7

8. You enjoyed the live audience’s treatment of Monday Night Raw.

Scott Slimmer: FACT. I’m glad that this statement is phrased exactly how it is, because that makes my response very easy. There are certainly some very valid arguments to be made about whether or not the live audience took things too far on Monday night and whether or not they were disrespectful to the performers, particularly Randy Orton and Sheamus. However, if you’re simply asking whether I enjoyed the live audience’s treatment of Monday Night Raw, then the only honest answer I can give is yes. Hell, I thought it was amazing, and I was more engaged and entertained than I’ve been in a long time. Maybe that makes me a bad person or a bad fan, but it’s the honest truth. I mean, I’m the kind of guy that will always mark for a good ECW or RVD chant, and you simply can’t deny that something special happened with Fandango that night. But what it really comes down to for me is the fact that Raw was a reminder of what professional wrestling can be. Think about the way the fans used to cheer for Bruno Sammartino in the Garden. Think about Shane Douglas truly fearing for his life back in the ECW Arena. Think about that legendary pop when Austin made the save during the Rock / Mankind title match on Raw. And then think about the all too familiar silence we hear during so many matches these days. Maybe the fans on Raw took it too far, but at least they tried. They became invested in the show, and they became part of the show. In one way or another, they cared about the show. And in an era where we as fans like to sit back and analyze and criticize and judge professional wrestling, there was something truly refreshing about seeing a group of fans unabashedly care about professional wrestling once again.

Jeff Small: FACT, or my name is not FAN… DAN…GOOOOOOO. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo doo doo…

Final Score: 4 for 8

Small & Slimmer agree half of the time, and live up to my expectations of them. That’s why we’re 411 Old School for life. If you’d like to chime in on these topics, that’s what the comment section is for. Thanks to Jeff & Scott for participating, and we’ll be back next week with more Fact or Fiction!