411 Wrestling Buy or Sell 9.01.13: Tatanka, Greg Gagne, Sting/Warrior and More

HELLO, THERE.

Welcome back to 411’s Buy or Sell: Classic wrestling edition! This is the column in which 411’s columnists, like ancient scotsmen that are secretly aliens, do clumsy battle across your computer monitor all the while knowing that there can be only one. The theme for this week is disappointment; we’ll cover missed opportunities, poor performances, and undeserved pushes. So reach for some tissues, because me — “The Mustachioed Assassin” Matt O’Connell — and “The Lonely Metamorph” Dino Zucconi are about to throw down. It’s time to Buy or Sell.

If Steve Borden had found his way to the WWF instead of Jim Hellwig, he would have had more long-term success in the WWF than Warrior did, and more than he had in WCW as Sting.

Matt O’Connell BUY: I’m buying this, based upon two single solitary matches: Hogan/Sting at Starrcade 1997 . . . . and Hogan/Sting at SuperBrawl 1997, one month later. These two matches should have represented the zenith of Sting’s WCW career, the moment when their franchise player unseated the hottest heel of the decade to win the world championship and cement his legacy. However, Sting needed help in BOTH matches, and he lost the title to Randy Savage after a one PPV defense against Scott Hall of all people. And sadly enough, this did wind up being the highlight of his career; with over twenty years in the business, Sting never once had a moment as powerful as the Warrior’s WrestleMania title win. But let’s say that Steve Borden debuts in the late 80’s WWF. The Warrior, who is remembered fondly by casual fans despite being a pretty bad wrestler and kind of a jerk, lasted only a few years. Sting was a guy that could do everything the Warrior could, but better, and be the kind of company man that Undertaker has been. And remember, Sting has never stopped changing with the times; he wouldn’t necessarily looked out of place in any era of the WWF. And we’d also be able to talk about his classic matches with Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Steve Austin, and yes, the Undertaker. But all of that is worth sacrificing out of loyalty to a company that literally used him right once.

Isn’t it?

Dino Zucconi SELL: Only for the second part of the statement. If Sting goes to the WWF, I have no doubt he would have stuck around for longer than 3 years. Even if he’s not immediately given the treatment Warrior got, and is more of a higher level midcard for a while, I still see Sting sticking around, and rising up the card and having more success than the Warrior did, in a longer period of time. However, part of Sting’s success is his legacy as the Greatest Wrestler to Never Go to Vince. That absolutely goes into his aura. And, sure, that might be coming to a close soon (and it might not), but even if he were to go to WWE now, it would only cement what was always said about him. Sting is a gigantic star, a star born out of the loyalty he created with his WCW fans. They never had to worry about him showing up on RAW. He’s always been Sting. Sting is the absolute biggest name WCW created, and I just don’t see him matching that in the WWF. Could he still go down as an all time great if he goes to the WWF? Well yes, absolutely. Does he go down with a singular title that no one else can have (much like Undertaker’s WM win streak)? That, I just don’t see. If Sting goes to the WWF, I feel we absolutely do not have “The Icon” today.

Though we know him best as the mostly forgotten gee-whiz babyface champion of the pre-Hogan WWF, Bob Backlund had the technical chops to be an NWA champion had he found himself there during his prime.

Matt O’Connell BUY: I always felt a little bad for Bob Backlund. The poor guy was a great worker and he had a great deal of charisma but — one assumes — he was discouraged from showing it. When Peter Maivia turned heel, the usually soft-spoken All-American Boy cut a hot-blooded, Ric Flair-style promo on him, and we all know how entertaining the “Mr. Bob Backlund” character was from his second WWF run. But Vincent J. McMahon liked an inoffensive babyface on top, so there Backlund sat, having good matches and growing more unpopular by the day. By the time Vince, jr. took over Backlund was an anachronism, and he faded from the mainstream with plenty left in the tank. I had originally thought that the NWA would have been a logical step for him, and in fact a pre-WWF Backlund had enjoyed some minor success in the NWA territories, wrestling the likes of Jack Brisco and Harley Race for regional titles. Even though the NWA had begun to switch to a heel champ paradigm, there’s no reason he couldn’t have won the title instead of, say, Tommy Rich.

Dino Zucconi BUY: And a pretty easy one, from where I sit. The only reservations I’d have is that the NWA usually preferred to have a heel champion, and while Backlund obviously proved capable of that role in his 90s comeback, that doesn’t mean he’d have been a heel back then, nor that he would have been effective at that time as a heel. However, if we’re simply plunking babyface Backlund out of the WWF, and placing him in the NWA as is, then yes, he could absolutely deliver an NWA style match, I feel. Backlund and Harley Race actually faced off in a now unheard of unification match in 1980, and the result is a fantastic match to watch. Since he was able to hang with one of the absolute best champions ever, I feel confident that Backlund would have been just fine as NWA champion.

No major wrestling star has less to show for a years-long, sustained push than Tatanka.

Matt O’Connell BUY: It’s pretty incredible to think that Tatanka was a major part of WWF programming for nearly half a decade without really doing much. I know that Tatanka’s push hails from an era when title victories were pretty rare, but it’s pretty unrealistic to have a guy go undefeated for two years and never pick up an IC or tag team title run. He made it to the 1993 King of the Ring and went to a time limit draw, he somehow always forgot that matches could end via count-out whenever he had a title shot, and the one thing he did have — that streak — he lost to an evil Finnish environmentalist. It’s unfortunate really, because Tatanka was really quite over in the early 1990’s, and let’s not forget that his push happened while the Mountie of all people was crowned IC champion.

Dino Zucconi BUY: I guess if I go letter of the law on this, it’s true. I don’t feel it’s fair, but it’s true. If Tatanka wrestled in the Attitude Era, we’re talking about a four time European champion, two time Tag champion, and a possible Intercontinental champion. However, since his push happened in the early 90’s, he had to settle for an Intercontinental championship match at WrestleMania, beating veterans like Rick Martel, and drawing a surprising house market in a feud with Yokozuna. He just didn’t happen to star in an era where championships are handed out as “thank yous” or used to test if you’re ready for something bigger. However, that goes into the statement- he has nothing to show for it. They even ended his streak in less than spectacular fashion on an edition of Superstars to frickin Ludvig Borga of all people. Add in an ill-fated heel turn, and you pretty much have Tatanka no longer mattering in the main event picture. It’s too bad, but it’s the way it goes sometimes. I always dug Tatanka, for the record, especially his awesome Smackdown comeback 7 or 8 years ago.

Rob Bartlett was the single worst commentator to ever lace up the, er, headset.

Matt O’Connell BUY: Some of you might be saying, “But Matt. Mike Adamle. Jeff Harvey. Come on.” And to you I say: no. Go back and watch the very first episode of Monday Night Raw, on which Rob Bartlett performs the single worst Mike Tyson impression in the history of vocal chords. For a full five minutes. Then remember that, aside from being utterly charmless, Bartlett was also entirely ignorant of (and apparently disinterested in) the sport of professional wrestling. So yeah, he had the wrestling knowledge of Art Donovan combined with the commentating skills of Mike Adamle and the comedic chops of a young Josef Stalin. All of this is of course compounded by the fact that Bobby Heenan was on payroll, relegated to backstage skits. What’s the point of employing the world’s preeminent BROADCAST JOURNALIST if you’ve got this load doing color on your flagship show?

Dino Zucconi BUY: I thought of a few other options, and figured that there has to be guys at the smaller level that are awful. But then . . . then I watched Papa Shango vs. Bob Backlund via the YouTubes. Bartlett . . . wow. Bartlett is atrocious. Heenan and Monsoon clearly hate him. Yet he does this horrible fake announcer schtick the whole time- the WHOLE time. It’s really bad. I didn’t see much of RAW in its early days, but holy crap. I’m retroactively angry at Vince for putting him on my screen. Another video- this time of the January 25, 1993 RAW- only confirms that Bartlett is not fun to listen to, no matter how much he seems to think he is. Though, Art Donovan put the headset on for King of the Ring 1994, and he was pretty bad, too. Give it to Bartlett for inspiring Kevin Nash’s Chet Lemon alterego, too. Man, that was not fun to listen to.

And now, a brief intermission before the switch. Anyone who says Hulk Hogan doesn’t job never saw him lay down for that jet-ski, brother.

For all the flack Verne Gagne gets for wanting to put the AWA championship on his son, there have been plenty of wrestlers worse than Greg Gagne who have held world titles without incident.

Dino Zucconi SELL: I mean, sure. That doesn’t mean that the people who give Verne flack are *wrong* by any stretch. I mean, think about Triple H. No one cares that he won the title in 1999. However, once he was known to be dating Stephanie, the rest of his title reigns were met with some disdain by a certain segment of fans, simply because it felt like nepotism to them. And Triple H isn’t even close to being among the worst wrestlers to have held a world title! Once nepotism is suspected, people just react differently. Still, this statement is technically correct, in that I’d put Greg Gagne at least at the same level as 2009 Mick Foley. I remain happy that he never got his hands on a world championship nonetheless.

Matt O’Connell SELL: Let’s imagine an alternate universe version of 2011, where by some amazing series of circumstances, TNA has become a sports-entertainment behemoth. Vince McMahon, despite running a phenomenally successful promotion for 30 years, is in trouble. All the stars he has made in the past five years have signed with Dixie to become superstars, and all he has left are his most loyal long-term employees. People love them, but Shawn Michaels is retiring and the Undertaker can’t work a full schedule anymore. Vince looks around roster and sees a younger guy with a pedigree in the business, who has proven exceptionally successful in tag team competition. Would Vince be crazy to put his world title on Ted DiBiase, jr.? I don’t think so; it’s all about context. Verne Gagne wasn’t stupid, and he knew his territory was destabilizing. He knew he could count on Greg not to leave, which is what every single one of the champions the AWA championship committee approved of wound up doing. But even in a perfect world, Greg was more qualified to hold a world championship than — off the top of my head — Jack Swagger, the Miz, Stan Stasiak, Tommy Rich, David Arquette, Vince Russo, Vince McMahon, Otto Wanz, Mikey Whipwreck, or Justin Credible.

The old school WWF blue steel cage was better than the chain link variation and ought to be brought back.

Dino Zucconi SELL: I was actually talking about this with some friends recently. For me, the cage issue boils down to the following: the blue steel cage looked like it felt much worse to be thrown into. The mesh cage looked like it felt worse to have your face rubbed against it. The blue steel cage appeared much easier to climb and execute cool flying moves off of. The mesh cage minimized the amount of extracurricular shenanigans more effectively. In the end, I love both cages. However, the blue bar cage (and its black cousin that appeared in the late 90s), just don’t inspire the same nostalgic images of barbarism. The bar cage also, as I said, was not nearly as effective in serving its purpose of keeping everyone else out while only the wrestlers went at it. The mesh cage feels like a cage- the bar cage feels like a painful playground. I wouldn’t mind bringing it back, but I’ll still go “sell” on this since I don’t like the idea of randomly switching between either cage type, and mesh is best.

Matt O’Connell BUY: One odd consequence of Vince McMahon’s purchases of trademarks and tape libraries is that the modern WWE has co-opted the traditions of half a dozen other promotions with varying degrees of success. In one sense, while TNA may seem like a spiritual successor to WCW, WWE owns WCW’s trademarks, recognizes its legacy, and even some of its title lineages; the ECW championship was also defended on WWE programming. At this very moment Alberto Del Rio holds a championship that is (sometimes) acknowledged to share a lineage with the iconic Big Gold Belt. My point is that in its collective eagerness to embody the complete heritage of American professional wrestling, WWE sometimes forgets to preserve parts of its own legacy which once upon a time differentiated them from the competition. One of the most visible of those trademarks was the blue bar cage that stood in stark contrast to the chain link beasts you’d see in the NWA. And if you’re going to have the Hell in a Cell, why not use the bars for standard cage matches? As it is one is just a less severe version of the other; you wouldn’t promote Indian Strap matches and also Nerd Rope matches. Embrace your history, fellows! Bring back the blue!

That’s all for this week, folks. I’d like to thank all my readers, and my fellow 411 staffers that participated in this week’s round of questions. I hope to see you all this same time next week for more 411 Buy or Sell: Classic Wrestling Edition.