Ask 411 Wrestling 03.08.07: Grand Slams, Vader’s Eye, Garbage and More!

Corrections, Comments and Calf Branding

Hey, Cook. This is John Gregory, the IWA Mid South reporter on 411. I wanted to clear up something that was mentioned this past week:

Hope that sheds some more like on your question. Maybe Ian deserves more credit, but he doesn’t seem bitter about it. – John Gregory

“In Edges biography he says that the reason he doesn’t bleed all the time, is that he wants it to mean something/more when he does similar to Bret Hart. Hope that clears this up!” – Justin

I’m pissed now!

Clay questioned Edge’s juicing last article. I totally don’t get the hating Edge thing, though I acknowledge the fact that a lot of people don’t like him. I accept this. But one thing that has always impressed me about Edge is that even though he has the size and look that management likes, he takes giant bumps. Cena, Rocky, Austin might slice and dice and bleed like bastards, but let’s see them take TLC bumps. Take Foley/Edge Wrestlemania bumps. Take HBK superkick in a street fight that does absolutely nothing but make Michaels think he still matters bumps. Hate Edge if you please. But give me another main eventer who’s willing to get himself killed. – Dave

Add Hulk Hogan to the list. Hogan held the WWF, WCW and IWGP titles. In fact,
Hogan held the IWGP and WWF titles simultaneously I believe. – Manny from Cincinnati

Hogan won the IWGP tournament on June 2, 1983. For the sake of simplification, we can add him to the list, though one could make the argument that the IWGP tournament and the current IWGP title are not the same thing…but honestly I’m not enough of a puro nut to make a stance.

Hans Schmidt, Dick Murdoch, Ivan Koloff, Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Jun Akiyama & Don Muraco all used the Calf Branding at one point or another, which was the name of the move Dean was asking about last week. Dick Slater also used the move for some time, but according to Ryan Holliday he called it the Grave Digger. Thanks to all of you who sent in answers on this, including 411’s own Jordan Linkous and Detroit’s own Mosi Kamau. Mosi plans on calf branding some bitches himself pretty soon, we wish him the best of luck with that.

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Questions!

“I’m trying to think of a WWE/F champion turning heel while he’s champion. Besides Batista at No Way Out this past Sunday, the only one I can come up with is WWF Champ Randy Savage turning on Hogan at SNME leading up to WrestleMania V. I’m not counting on someone turning heel to win the title (Rock over Foley at Survivor Series, Austin over Rock at WM 17) or circumstances like Bret Hart, John Cena, and maybe some others being face/heel depending on the city they’re in. They have to be a face champ and turn heel while they are champ. Can you think of any others? I don’t have enough knowledge to go beyond WWE, but examples from other companies may be interesting…” – Andrew Green

Kurt Angle won the WWE title from Big Show as a babyface at Armageddon 2002, but turned heel against Brock Lesnar during his ensuing title reign, which lasted until WrestleMania XIX. That is the only instance I could find of something like that happening (other than Savage) in WWF/E history.

WCW is a bit tougher to keep track of because once Vince Russo got the book, everybody and their kid sister changed face/heel status at least a few times a week.

“This time it’s about the honor that Shawn Michaels originally got. The Grand Slam Champion title. Who has won it and who’s potentially capable of being a GSC? I think Jeff Hardy may be one but not sure. and wouldn’t JBL qualify as a GSC? – John Bryant

The Grand Slam consisted of the WWF Title, the Intercontinental Title, the Tag Team Title, and the European Title. Jeff Hardy falls short because he has not won the WWF/E Title, while JBL never won the Intercontinental Title. Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Edge & The Rock are missing the European Title from their collections. Off the top of my head, the Grand Slam Champions I can think of are Shawn Michaels, Triple H, & Chris Jericho. Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle can be added to that list if you include Smackdown’s version of the Tag Team titles. And before anybody asks, I don’t consider the US Title to be the same thing as the Intercontinental Title just because they’re of equal value according to WWE. The tag team titles I could consider as pretty much the same because both sets get equally ignored most of the time by WWE.

i remember seeing a match between vader and stan
hansen in Japan…and vaders eye litterally came
out….was he still able to see out of it, and if so
how? That was sick….seeing a dangling eyeball in the
film Hostel was gross,….but that was just special
effects…this was horrifying cause it was real. how
did he keep from losing sight? – Jones

Tough question…apparently the injury occured to the bones around Vader’s eye, which popped the eye to pop out…once Vader put the eye back in, it stayed in due to the swelling. Apparently he had a metal plate put in around his eye after this injury happened. Apparently his vision was restored, though I couldn’t find any information confirming or denying that.

Kevin has three questions…

1) I’m sure this comes up pretty often, but what happened to the British Bulldog
VS Berzerker match scheduled for WrestleMania VIII? I know it was cancelled,
but why? and were the wrestlers in the building that day?

I think it was due to time constraints, as the show was only running three hours unlike the usual four that WrestleManias usually ran at that time (and run these days). No word on whether they were there or not, but both men would remain with the company until 1993.

2) I missed the live viewing of Royal Rumble 1995 years ago, but ordered the
“encore” that tuesday night. Now granted I was only 7 years old at the time,
but I distinctly remember the encore taking place in an arena with a live crowd
on hand just watching a big screen playing the event. The “host” was Roddy
Piper, who stood at a podium in the middle of the aisle of the arena. Shawn
Michaels came out at the end of the show and berated Piper. Can you explain if
this was all just a dream, or if it really happened. And also, when the hell
did they film this?? I find it hard to believe the audience would watch the
entire show again right afterwards on the screen.

I could find no evidence of Roddy Piper appearing in the WWF in 1995…he did have a stint as acting President in 1996 and feuded with Jerry Lawler in 1994, but nothing in 1995. So…….I dunno.

3) This isn’t so much a question, as a general wondering. I was watching
WrestleMania VII recently, and noticed during the Hart Foundation’s pre-match
interview Jim Neidhart kind of put over the Nasty Boys/gave away the outcome of
the match. His exact words were: “To beat the foundation, you’ve gotta be right
at the bottom. And that’s where you are Nasty Boys; you’re right at the
bottom–“. Have you ever noticed this blatent fuck up? haha.”

Neidhart’s promos were often interesting like that. Fortunately, comments like that usually fly over wrestling fans’ heads, so he can say things like that.

Hi my name is Adrian and I like your column and have been reading it for quite
some time. Anyho I recently saw a clip of TNA with Jeff Jarrett standing on a
ladder putting a belt up on a hook and the crowd was white hot. They were
covering the ring with garbage much like Hogan’s infomous heal turn in 1996. I
was wondering if there has ever been a moment in WWE that the crowd has pelting
the ring with garbage because I simply can’t recall a time in WWE when it’s
happened. – Adrian

Back in the good old days, fans used to throw garbage all the time. They also rioted, rushed the ring, and frequently tried to attack the heels. This was back when people thought wrestling was real. WCW pioneered the modern-day art of trash throwing with the end of every WCW Monday Nitro that had the NWO standing tall and spray painting people. The one instance I can remember it happening on a WWE show was at the end of ECW’s Sci Fi taping in Philadelphia last year that featured RVD dropping the ECW title to the Big Show and Paul Heyman turning heel. I wouldn’t say that happened due to the fans being white hot though. It was more like they were disgusted that they paid to watch the garbage that ECW had become. The trash was thrown more in frustration than anger.

“I was just watching mon. night wars from 12/96.Raw was headlined by Undertaker vs. Mankind “NO HOLDS BARRED”.After the match an “masked executioner” came out and choked UT.I was wondering what the build up and blow off to this joker was and who was behind the mask?” – Josh

The Executioner was Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy in a ridiculous outfit carrying a plastic axe. He helped out Mankind and Paul Bearer in their feud with the Undertaker for a few weeks before disappearing.

Brad has three questions…

1) I attend shows put on by an independant promotion out of Maine called NWH.
Anyway there is a wrestler who is wicked old named Robbie Ellis. Apaprently he
has been rasslin forever, any history on this guy?

Ellis is 63 years old and has been wrestling in the independent scene for about 40 years. He co-owns the Baridoff Gallaries and devotes most of his time outside the ring to developing artistic and cultural programs in his home state of Maine. You can access a website about him here.

2) I used to watch AWA all the time, a wrestler I loved to hate was Col.
Debeers, any history on him

Ed Wiskowski played the role of Col. DeBeers in the AWA from 1985-1990, and also played the role in indy shows for years afterwards. Before his stint as a South African white supremacist, he wrestled under his real name in the Northwest and held multiple tag team titles with “Playboy” Buddy Rose. The Northwest area, particularly Portland, Oregon, was where he spent most of his career…he also worked in the Central States area and for Leroy McGurik’s promotion in Oklahoma. He and Rose currently run a wrestling school in Portland. Here’s an interesting interview with Wiskowski that provides interesting reading and information on his career.

3) My favorite WWF wrestler when I was younger was Billy Jack Haynes, what ever
happened to him, adn how come he never really received a push other than his
feud with Hercules?

Haynes didn’t get a push because he left the WWF shortly after WrestleMania III. The story surrounding his departure changes every time he tells it, but basically, he left the WWF after refusing to do a job in his hometown of Portland. Whether he planned on leaving beforehand is up for debate, but the bottom line was that he left and never returned to the WWF. Whether he would have gotten a bigger push or not, I can’t say.

Hey love the column and all, and finally i decided to write you a question. Recently I was watching Wrestlemania X7 and the gimmick battle royal was on. My question is what are the odds the WWE will do annother one at a PPV? I really enjoyed it watching all the old school guys go at it, and I’d like to see them bring it back to Wrestlemania again, maybe not every year but every two years with different gimmicks? What do you think? – Francis

The gimmick battle royal was pretty entertaining…I wouldn’t be surprised if WWE brought it back for a future WrestleMania. Of course, this depends on the health of the people that WWE gave their most ridiculous gimmicks to. I’d like to see it again, and it certainly wasn’t a disaster that WWE wouldn’t want to re-live.

what was the artist who would become known as Goldust’s deal in this event.
was he getting a tryout match?. or was he full time part of the wwe. what
led to himgoing to wcw for a spell rather than long term with wwf? – Deeds (referring to the 1991 Royal Rumble)

Dustin was part of a storyline along with his dad, who was feuding with the Million Dollar Man and Virgil. He had a couple of matches in the WWF, including a 10 minute TV match with Dibase, and at least two tag team matches alongside Dusty against Dibase and Virgil. As for why he went to WCW instead of staying with the WWF…his dad went to WCW to be the booker. This is chronicled on the Dusty Rhodes DVD that WWE put out last year, which I highly recommend if you haven’t seen much of Dusty’s work.

As I watched the Royal Rumble, and the way Sabu was eliminated (getting
thrown through a table), it got me thinking….when Sabu when through table he
was on his back..and obviously his feet had not yet touched the floor,as they
were dangling in the air. Now suppose he was able to get his feet onto the
broken table and jump back into the ring without them hitting the floor..would
he still be considered eliminated? – wrichardshad,

I think that would be physically impossible. And if it did somehow happen, the referees would probably make him leave anyway because he’s Sabu.

Basti has three questions…

1. in your opinion what wrestler played both roles as a face or a heel the best?
my friend and i have an disagreement about that question. i think that shawn
michaels and the rock played both parts to perfection another good one in my
book is chris jericho. my friend on the other hand wants me to believe that
stone cold and kurt angle did a better job. i love kurt angle and stone cold as
much as anybody,but steve austin was never that good of an heel in wwf/e (in the
alliance he was more funny as an badass) i thought even when kurt angle was an
heel, he got a lot of cheers. but i can be wrong because i did not see much of
kurts early career in the wwf. it was very hard during that time to watch
wrestling in germany cause the wwf didn’t have an tv deal. was angle at any time
really over as an heel?

Kurt was really over as a heel when he first came to the WWF…he played the role of stuck-up Olympic gold medalist who thought he was above everybody else very well, and people hated him. Later on he became more respected by the fans and that made it tough when he’d turn heel for a few weeks because part of the crowd would still cheer him. Although, the “You Suck” sing along to his entrance music was always popular.

As for who played both roles the best…most of you know that I’m not one to give Hulk Hogan much love, but his ability as a face is unquestioned and my favorite part of his career was when he was leading the NWO as a heel. Ric Flair also has to be up for discussion here. I’ll also throw Eddie Guerrero out there as a guy that could play a great babyface or a great heel. Jerry Lawler is another guy who has to be in the discussion…he played a great babyface in Memphis and a great heel everywhere else. Randy Savage was always either one of the top babyfaces or one of the top heels wherever he went.

2. who ever decides what kind of thights,kneepads and boots each wrestler has to
use? when i look back at ric flair during his wcw days, he used to wear for
example green tights,yellow kneepads and green boots or some other combinations.
today i just see him with red or black tights,boots and kneepads. i always
thought john cena should be wearing camo shorts, which he did for a couple of
weeks, but then switched to this dark green shorts he still uses to this day. i
understand why hbk stopped wearing these colourful outfits (black & green are
the dx colours) in the end does the wrestler, or the company he is working for,
make the call??

WWE is usually more hands-on with this sort of thing than most other companies. I don’t know how much say they have over what the talent wears, but I’m sure if the wrestler wants to wear something that the backstage guys don’t want them wearing, it’ll be changed. I know TNA tells their wrestlers to wear their merchandise because Alex Shelley hated his t-shirt and complained about having to wear it. In the indies it’s obviously different.

3. why did randy savage only win the wwf championship twice?
he was always very over as an heel or a face (hey i guess he is an good answer
to my first question don’t you think?) however i thought a good worker like
macho man/king deserved the belt more often?!

To be fair, one of his reigns lasted a year and the other was almost half a year. The WWF title changed hands much less when Savage was with the company, and it was usually on Hulk Hogan. So I’d classify him as a victim of bad circumstances when it comes to WWF title reigns.

Speak of the devil…

Not sure if this is a comment or a question but here goes. Common wrestling knowledge states that Hulk Hogan was a babyface his whole popular career and turned heel when he was the third man in the nWo correct? That seems to be regarded as fact. I started watching WCW in 1996 (WWF in the early 80’s). The Benoit/Sullivan feud as well as Brian Pillman got me hooked. It was during this time that I remember that Hogan was wearing black muscle shirts, wore a black crucifix and bandana, and was blatantly cheating in front of the referee. Am I the only one that remembers this? He was battling the IV Horsemen and Dungeon of Doom simultaneously. Remember when Elizabeth (or Woman) injured his eye with the heel of her shoe?Was WCW floating a test balloon to see if the people would accept a rulebreaking Hogan? I also seem to remember hearing “Hogan Sucks” chants. Seemed to me people were getting tired of the babyface Hogan. I know I was. I got tired of it circa Wrestlemania 6. Anyway, are wrestling fans re-writing history by neglecting this time-frame of Hogan’s career? – Craig St. Clair

Well, technically Hogan wasn’t a heel at that point, but it was WCW’s way of adknowledging that a large portion of their fanbase still didn’t like the guy that had represented the WWF for a generation. To be honest, there were a lot of WCW fans that never liked the WWF or watched it, and Hogan was a major part of that. So even though he was brought in as a conquering hero, there were still those that cheered Ric Flair because he was WCW. It didn’t help that Hogan’s babyface act was beyond stale at that point, and he desparately needed something to shake things up.

To answer your question, technically Hogan was still a babyface, so it’s not a total re-writing of history when fans ignore it when talking about Hogan being a babyface until the NWO.

Bill has two questions…

I was watching something on YouTube, and it featured
some wrestlers I’ve seen on TNA in a promotion that
I’ve never heard of. One of those infamous indy
promotions, of course. My question is, what are the
big indy promotions out there? I’ve heard of ROH and
CZW, though I don’t know much about them. Oh, and XPW,
but that’s dead now, isn’t it? What are, say, the ten
biggest indy promotions? Or are there even ten to
speak of?

There are a lot more than ten independent promotions, but most of them aren’t very well-known. I would classify Ring Of Honor as the biggest indy right now. CZW is not doing very well business-wise right now but they’re still one of the most recognized indies. IWA Mid-South, Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, Full Impact Pro & Chikara Pro are all promotions that have cult internet followings but don’t seem to draw very well as far as actual attendance goes. Memphis Wrestling is the newest version of wrestling in Memphis. The East Coast Wrestling Association holds the famous Super 8 tournament every year that features top light heavyweights and makes stars like Christopher Daniels. And there’s Ohio Valley Wrestling, Ultimate Pro Wrestling and other “indies” that groom future WWE superstars.

My other question is about the various wrestling
styles. I’ve heard of lucha, Japanese, European,
Southern and hardcore, and I’m sure there are a lot of
others. Usually I’ve heard things like “Benoit can
wrestle all these different styles.” What are the main
features of the different styles? How would I know
them when I see them?

I’m really simplifying this as much as I can, but here are the bare essentials to describe the styles that you list…

Lucha – Usually features lots of flying around the ring, crazy dives, hurricanranas

Japanese – Very stiff, people hitting each other for real and dropping people on their heads

European – More scientific, lots of wrestling holds like armbars, wristlocks, cravates, and pretty wrestling

Southern – More of a roughouse style, not very scientific, focused around getting heat rather than doing flashy moves

Hardcore – Weapons. Lots and lots of weapons.

The first four are regional styles that you’ll usually see from people from that area because that’s how they were taught. People who have worked in all areas can pick up a little from each and become a true professional wrestler.

It seems like here in 411 you always have the answers to the questions asked. I’ve always been a big fan of the business since I was 6 years old. I am 22 now and would love to be a part of a wrestling organization whether it would be BIG league or independent. But not as a wrestler more like a booker, I would love to be part of that and have actually think that I’d have a good shot at establishing talent, new ideas, etc. My question is simple, how is it that one can become a booker for a smaller company? Not WWE because we all know they hire soap opera writers and such. I admire guys like Paul Heyman, Erich Bischoff, Verne Gagne, Vince McMahon and tons of others more than I do the talent at times. Thanks I would love to know the “how to” steps to achieving that goal. – Adrian

How to become a booker? There are many different ways to get to that position, but they all have at least one thing in common…you need to get in good with wrestling people. They need to know that you exist and that you have ideas. If you’re going for something like booking an indy, I think the best thing you could do is go to a show and talk to people there. They might not take to you at first, but if you have good ideas, eventually they might start listening to you. Introduce yourself to the promoter if you know who they are, talk to them and show them that you have a good mind for the business. It’s not going to happen right away…of course you’re not going to just walk in and somebody makes you booker. You’ll probably have to work your way up…things like being on the ring crew, maybe being on security or being a camera man or maybe even a referee. Show them that you’ll do whatever it takes to get the job done. Guys like Heyman, Jim Cornette & Bischoff all started out around the bottom, and that’s what you’ll have to do. Start out at the bottom, soak up all the knowledge you can, and maybe someday you can get to the point where you’re telling people what to do. Then they’ll kiss your ass instead of kick it.