411’s Buy or Sell 07.13.07: Japan vs. PPV, Matt Sydal in TNA, Match of the Year, and more!

Matt Adamson: SELL. As much as I’d like to think he will be the first to do it, I have a feeling that Danielson might be the one they go with. My hope for Aries to be the one stems from the fact that with their new Pay-Per View deal that they are in the public eye for the first time. Aries is a guy who looks like a legitimate star where Danielson just looks like a wrestler. I know what they are going for with Danielson,
but Aries has the potential to lead that company into the spotlight. People care about the way a wrestler looks far more than I wish they would, but it’s just the facts, and Austin Aries has “the look”. Time will only tell with this as I think the first two-time ROH champion is still a while off. I have a feeling we’ll see Nigel McGuinness take the title at some point before anybody else holds it for a second time.

Samuel Berman : SELL . He won’t be, but he should be. The truth is that Matt’s right and I think they’ll end up giving the belt back to Bryan Danielson before Aries gets another shot with it. To be honest, Danielson will probably get the belt back before Aries even gets another shot AT it. ROH tends not to pull bait-and-switch moves with their titles, so I won’t predict anything wacky like Danielson walking out of Japan with the title, but if he doesn’t have it back by year’s end, I’d be pretty surprised.

1 for 1.

Matt Adamson : SELL. This of course comes with a condition. I don’t know what the legality of a pre-taped show running with a wrestler who is currently signed to another company is, but assuming it is legal for them to air Sydal’s match on the second Pay-Per-View, I have to sell this one. I think that the inclusion of Sydal might bring in a viewer or two as he will likely be on national television if all things with TNA work out. ROH will be able to have Matt Sydal, a TNA star attached to their show, and in my mind that is a good thing. In the early stages of this deal it would seem any additional star power or added publicity, intentional or not is a bonus because people are attracted to stars, and Matt Sydal will have been seen all over the country by the time the second Pay-Per-View airs.

Samuel Berman : BUY . I hate to disagree with Matt, but I mean, come on. If Sydal isn’t even with the company by the time the second PPV airs, then it will have been a HUGE mistake to feature him. Having him already a part of TNA will make ROH look like the minor leagues, an appearance that the company should be trying to avoid at all costs. ROH needs to establish itself as an alternative to TNA, not as a breeding ground for their new talent acquisitions. Personally, though I like Sydal as a person (he’s always been very nice to me at events and has taken the time to stand around and talk more than once), I think there were better people to feature on the first two shows (see: Quackenbush, Mike) who have a better long-term outlook in Ring of Honor. I understand featuring Sydal, but that’s not the question in this case.

1 for 2.

Matt Adamson : SELL . I sort of laugh at this entire thing, but I completely understand their reason for doing so. ROH has an obligation to its own product and while the fans are smart, there are people checking it out for the first time. Those new fans might not realize what is going on with Sydal and TNA and if a deal between Sydal and TNA doesn’t work out, Ring of Honor is not going to want its new fans thinking ROH is a place for TNA rejects. This kayfabe plan essentially protects Ring of Honor’s investment in Sydal while protecting Sydal in the event that TNA is not interested in signing him. This situation seems to be designed less for the ROH faithful than for the new fans being brought in by the Pay-Per-View.

Samuel Berman : SELL . Hey, why not. I think Matt covered this pretty well and will only add that I think the fun part of this whole thing is that it actually continues to put heat on Sweeney (and by proxy Chris Hero) which is never a bad thing. All in all, a creative way for Gabe Sapolsky to have addressed this issue.

2 for 3.

Matt Adamson : BUY . At least to me it’s a bigger deal. I think if the case were a little different and ROH were running live Pay Per Views I’d be singing a different tune, but this is Japan folks. As far as the expansion of professional wrestling goes globally, it leaves Mexico and Australia for ROH to run before they’ve covered all the important bases. It’s an incredible thing for an independent wrestling promotion to be running globally. Their connection to NOAH and Dragon Gate in this case will likely make for an interesting combination of fans. You’ve got the rowdy Dragon Gate crowd and the mild NOAH crowd. The combination of wrestlers is a bit of a milestone as well. Basically they are running some real talent from all three promotions and to be perfectly honest, when I look at these cards, they look to be about the best I’ve ever seen from ROH. Of course that could be the puro bias in me.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I’m selling this, but I think it’s very, very, very close. In all honesty, running shows Internationally at all, let alone in your second market outside of the U.S., is about as impressive an accomplishment as an Independent can hope for. Look at it this way: TNA doesn’t run shows in Japan, but ROH does. I think I’d be more inclined to sell this convincingly if ROH had live PPVs, but with the current model, running live, authentic, in-canon shows in Japan is right there with the move to PPV. If I could ‘push’ on this, I would.

2 for 4.

SWITCH~!

Samuel Berman : BUY . Please don’t misunderstand this as me saying that running shows Internationally isn’t important. However, the truth is that there are a lot of cities around North America where they have yet to run a show (or haven’t run shows in a LONG time) that might be better long-term markets for the company. Since ROH has decided not to run St. Paul in the near future, why not do a doubleshot in St. Louis (a notorious wrestling hotbed) the next time they run Chicago. Also, with an established company in Southern California (Pro Wrestling Guerrilla in this case), why not head out West and run an authentic Ring of Honor event? Personally, I yearn for a return date to Milwaukee (site of Death Before Dishonor II, Night 1), but I can understand why ROH would just run Chicago rather than both cities considering their proximity. But is there that same rationale in not running other big cities like Atlanta, St. Louis and Washington D.C.? And by the way, Washington (or Baltimore) is the most bizarre ommision to me, as it’s right on the 95 corridor with Philadelphia and would be a more-than-logical doubleshot candidate for either a Philadelphia or New Jersey date. Maybe it’s just naivete, but I can’t really conceive of how it’s more cost effective for a Philadelphia-based company to run shows in Liverpool and Tokyo than it would be to run shows in Washington D.C.

Matt Adamson : BUY . Obviously I’d be all for this idea. Like Berman said, the international market is a very important one and I think it would be foolish not to tap into it more as it really seems to be working for them, but there is about 3/5 of the U.S. that has yet to experience an ROH event. D.C. is an obvious market that should really be tapped into. Maybe an affordable venue is the problem with that one, otherwise I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t run shows there. Other markets that could do well with ROH are Florida, Texas (too bad the Sportatorium isn’t still standing), St. Louis, Los Angeles (come on guys, ROH vs. PWG is money), and the Pacific Northwest. Of course I would love to see them make a trip up to the Northwest, specifically Portland. They might be able to have some great names appear on the show that aren’t available for the east coast shows. Hell, Bryan Danielson is from the Northwest, as is Davey Richards. Portland and Seattle would be great locations and I can even recommend a good affordable venue or 12 for them to use in Portland. There’s a lot of indy talent that they can use for preliminary stuff up here who I know would appreciate a chance to wrestle for ROH. That’s untapped potential, why not come and explore the options. Same goes for Canada.

3 for 5.

Samuel Berman : SELL . Ring of Honor has, for whatever reason, steered clear of doing an extensive tournament ever since their two show event to determine the first ROH Champion. Though they have run the one-night Survival of the Fittest event each of the last three years, the impact of a more traditional bracketed tournament is different than that of the two-round SotF concept. Whichever wrestler comes out on top will have to have won three matches on the second night, an impressive accomplishment to be sure. Now, as for the notion that this tournament is being booked out of desperation, I can’t get around that at all. Ring of Honor’s booking is as good now as it has ever been (with the notable exception of the sublime Summer of Punk angle). However, whether the company is feeling internal pressure to make new main event level stars in the wake of the TNA talent pull and their debut on Pay-Per-View is anyone’s guess. Gabe Sapolsky doesn’t seem (and never has) like the kind of booker who overreacts to losing talent. Jimmy Jacobs got injured, he found a way to keep him involved in the product. Samoa Joe left, the company put on a fantastic double-shot on Wrestlemania weekend. James Gibson had signed with WWE and then won the ROH World Title, the belt was moved to a logical successor. If anything, booking the Race to the Top Tournament is a sign that Ring of Honor is willing to listen to their fans, many of whom have been clamoring for a Battle of Los Angeles or Ted Petty Invitational style tournament for some time now.

Matt Adamson : SELL . I completely agree with Berman here. Ring of Honor is far from desperation. They are expanding, that is usually a sign that the opposite of desperation is true. A tournament is a sign of health in my mind, which is why Japanese promotions use them so often, but when those promotions are going through tough times, they threaten to skip them. ROH has the talent to pull off a tournament and it’s a tremendous tool to develop new stars. After a couple months of consideration about the effect of the TNA talent pull, I’ve come to the conclusion that it was a good thing for ROH because it allows them to develop their own stars rather than rely on TNA’s influence. This is exactly what this tournament is for. They have a relatively strong main event scene with Morishima, Danielson, McGuinness, Strong, and The Briscoes. You also have KENTA and Marufuji when they are around to fill out the main event. You just have to look at “main event” a little differently. This tournament will give the next ROH main eventer a push into the limelight so to say. That’s not a sign of desperation, it’s a sign of planning for the future.

4 for 6.

Samuel Berman : SELL . Though I’m selling this, it wouldn’t really surprise me if it comes out later that there was a connection. I think the real reason that the next Pay-Per-View taping is being put off until the September 15th return to Chicago Ridge is that doing the next taping in mid-August would put them too far behind in terms of when that show would air. Now, I do think that it’s also a ploy to keep attendance high in the Chicago market, while the New York City market will seemingly sell out the Manhattan Center no matter what show ROH puts on. I do really hope I’m correct in that there’s no connection between Summerslam and ROH not taping the PPV in New York, because to my non-insider eyes, it’s seems like a silly reason to not tape in front of one of your hottest crowds.

Matt Adamson : SELL . I have to admit, the idea of not taping a PPV in New York just because of the presence a WWE PPV seems downright silly to me. Why on earth not tape in front of your hottest crowd? Well, I think Berman has the answer here in that the New York crowd is their hottest crowd and they want to keep attendance up in the other big markets by bringing special events like a PPV taping. I think it’s time for ROH to expand though. It seems they are experiencing falling attendance in some of their larger markets which means a trip to some other places might be just what they need. I know, I know, that wasn’t the question, but I am desperate for some ROH in Portland, Oregon. It must happen… right?

5 for 7.

Samuel Berman : BUY . Well, if I have anything to say about it, it will. I’ve been lobbying for the Briscoes vs. MCMG match to get a look from some of our writers who don’t usually watch ROH, and hopefully having an extra copy of the show to send around will help in that campaign. Beyond that contest, there’s the fabulous Whitmer vs. Jacobs Cage Match, the Briscoe vs. Briscoe match from Liverpool and the KENTA vs. Danielson rematch from June that are all going to be contenders at the end of the year. Ring of Honor is steadily gaining momentum amongst the 411 staff, and I think that this year provides the company with the best opportunity yet to break through in our year-end awards. And everything I mentioned has just been from the first half of the year. Imagine what else is on the horizon, including the just announced Danielson vs. Quackenbush contest and a number of great matchups from the Race to the Top Tournament.

Matt Adamson : SELL . It’s possible, but I don’t think the chances are “good”. So far this year nothing has just stood out especially strong that many of the writers who don’t watch ROH are going to check out. If I were the only one deciding this, I would have to say it will be from NOAH and involve Kotaro Suzuki and Ricky Marvin, but alas, myself and Matt Short would be the only one’s voting for any of that. Regardless of my feelings, I can feel certain that the MOTY will come from North America and will likely be the product of WWE as it has become seemingly impossible for the WWE to not seem overwhelming in the WOTW voting. Therefore, unless something amazing happens, we’re looking at something involving John Cena. My answer would change if something just simply outstanding happened on an ROH PPV. In that case the chances might be “good”, but the philosophy of PPV to ROH seems to save those amazing matches for DVD release.

5 for 8!

The thirteenth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 5 for 8. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.