Ask 411 Wrestling 08.01.07: Briscoes, Gold Dust, Kabukis and More!

Hi Larry!

So we’re going to cover less questions than usual and not include any corrections and other crap because I don’t have the time for it. I’m sure JT will hate on me for being “drunk and lazy”…but that happens when you’re 23 and you still act like you’re in freshman year.

I miss those guys.

Chris has four questions to kick us off…

1) I stopped following wrestling for a while back at the start of the decade and stopped reading 411 around that time. What the heck happened to Hyatte and Scott Keith?

Hyatte & SK left 411 along with Widro and most of 411’s other established talent to form Inside Pulse in August 2004. SK still writes for IP and has announced on his blog that he’ll be writing a book covering the “Hart family curse” and the Benoit tragedy. Hyatte got fired from IP and wrote news columns for the Declaration of Independents website for awhile before announcing his retirement. I suspect it’ll last as long as his other retirements.

2) Do you know of any way to get the TNA entrance themes? Any news on a CD or iTunes release?

They released a CD titled “Third Degree Burns”, but it is currently listed as sold out on their website. I’m not sure which stores you could possibly find it in.

3) Do you think when Edge comes back from his injury that he will get rid of that lame spear finisher? Why do you tihnk so many people use it?

I think he’ll keep using it to piss me off. That’s why I think so many people use it…to piss me off. Seriously though, the spear is a pretty easy move to do and usually gets a big pop out of a crowd even if it doesn’t look very good. That’s reason enough for most WWE guys to include it in their offense.

4) I think 2 things are needed before MRRRRR KEEEENNNNEEEDDDDYYYY… kennedy can become a huge star: an interview closing catch phrase and a beter finisher than the f’n swanton… thoughts?

He already has a closing catchphrase…

KENNEDY!

As for his finisher, the Green Bay Plunge he did earlier in his WWE run was a lot cooler than the Kenton Bomb, but it would be tough to use on people that aren’t cruiserweights. The one good thing about him using the Kenton is that it could lead to a feud with him and Jeff Hardy, which will hopefully lead to him driving Hardy out of the promotion. A guy can hope, can’t he?

With the mention of PWI in this week’s column, it got me to thinking. If there isn’t and never was an affiliation between wrestling publications (i.e.. PWI, The Wrestler, The Main Event & Wrestling World) than wouldn’t this be the biggest coup for the industry as a whole?

For decades, even long past the time the WWE came out and said the sport was a work did these magazines go on like it was legit. They sent out photographers and covered events that weren’t televised and showed fans that indy federations ran internationally and there was so much more out there than the established companies. They also did the big companies HUGE favours by advancing storylines and keeping the business ‘safe’ by using kayfabe. Other than each of these magazine owners being huge marks, how can there be an explanation? And how can the NWA, WCW and WWF at certain points have ever been mad at these publications? They probably garnered more fan support for themselves than the little bit of money they would have made selling their own publications at a higher cost, which they later all did anyway. I heard at one point Apter and Napolitano were banned from ringside…how RIDICULOUS! I can see if it was Meltzer in the 80’s, but the indy mags. would have been like a money tree, don’t you think? – Jason Bray

The majority of wrestling promoters were trying to do whatever they could to get into the Apter mags back in the day. When the wrestling business was territorial, the only way a promoter could get their product noticed outside their territory was through wrestling magazines. Once Vince took his product to a national level, he didn’t need wrestling magazines covering his product to get attention. The way he saw it, guys like Apter were taking money out of his pocket by featuring his wrestlers and using them to sell their magazines. There were also some instances where a wrestling magazine would write a story that didn’t go along with what the company was pushing at the time. I remember hearing that Vince McMahon Sr. was pissed when one of the Apter mags ran a story covering Andre the Giant losing to Jerry Lawler in Memphis. Andre was pushed as undefeated in the WWWF, so Vince didn’t want fans in the Northeast reading about Andre losing to a “midget” in Memphis. I can understand where promoters would come from on either side of this issue.

From the incomparable Harry Simon’s ’50 Dumbest Wrestling Moments EVER!’

I was wondering if you could inform me of the anecdotes that were “questionable
at best”. The only thing I can remember Foley getting wrong was mixing Megadeth
up with Nirvana. – Maffew (of Botchamania)

I don’t remember Foley’s credibility being damaged by that book. This is the first I’ve heard of any of this, actually. I’d love to hear which stories were lies and questionable and whatnot. I will call into question the portion of his book that he spent defending the WWE against the PTC. That was pretty boring.

Eddie Boyd wants to talk some Briscoes…

Have the Briscoes been offered a contract from the WWE or TNA? If they haven’t, can you give me a reason as to why they haven’t been offered one? I’ve seen some of their matches and they look like they are great.

I haven’t heard about them receiving offers from either promotion. I imagine they would have by now if they hadn’t had to take a hiatus from the business from August 2004 to October 2005 to deal with personal issues and recover from injuries. I don’t think they have the size that WWE is looking for…as for TNA, I don’t think they have been in WWE yet.

Also, what is the best match that you have seen or heard about with the Briscoes?

The best Briscoes tag match I’ve seen would probably be their match with Roderick Strong & Jack Evans on ROH’s “Best In The World” show. I’ve heard very good things about their match with the Motor City Machine Guns in Chicago & their match with Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal on Respect is Earned, but I’ve seen neither match. I saw the rematch of the PPV match live in Dayton, but it didn’t live up to the hype of the first one. I was not a fan of the Briscoes’ work from 02-04, but they’ve really grown on me since their return to ROH in 2006. Don’t tell Ari I said that.

Don’t remember the year, but it was when cable TV first came out that we got a Wrestling program out of Chattanooga, Tennessee that featured a young Bobby Eaton and George Gulas as The Jet Set, along with a young Randy Savage, Dutch Mantel, Tojo Yamamotto and Phil Hickerson and others.My question is what happened to Nick , George Gulas and the rest of the gang. By the way, was the announcers name Harry Thornton ? – Eddie Crowe

Nick Gulas co-promoted the Memphis territory for years, which included the Chattanooga program you speak of in the question. It was a huge territory that covered a lot of area and had a lot of wrestlers appearing. The problems for Gulas started in the mid-70s, when his son George became a wrestler. Despite George’s lack of talent and athleticism, Nick wanted to push him at the top of the card, and did so in the eastern portions of the territory. Jerry Jarrett was booking the cards on the west side, including Memphis, which was the most lucrative market in the territory by far. He didn’t want to stink his cards up by featuring George, who couldn’t draw flies if he was covered in honey. So he didn’t put George in big matches, which didn’t make Nick very happy. Jarrett decided to split from Nick, and took most of Nick’s top talent along with him. One guy Jarrett took with him was Jerry Lawler, who was becoming the biggest star in the Memphis territory, and would continue to be in that role until…..well, today. Nick tried to keep running shows in Memphis’ Mid-South Coliseum, but the fans decided that Jarrett’s promotion was better and Nick had to pull out of Memphis. He continued running shows in East Tennessee & Alabama until 1980, when he closed up shop. I’m guessing George’s career ended sometime around then as well.

And yes, the announcer’s name was Harry Thornton. He was a broadcasting legend in Chattanooga and co-promoted the city with Gulas. The show aired until 1980, when Gulas went out of business.

I have always Liked the Great Kabuki when he first started in WCCW he had two protégés but I have never been able to find out who they were one had a move they called a rolling sleeper he would wrap his legs around their neck and roll until they passed out until they were finally able to prove he was choking them out. Then they had a loser leave Texas match with The Von Erich’s that they lost and I never heard of them again. Do you have any clue who they were. I have been watching wrestling for over 40 years. – Rick Carter

I’ve been alive barely half that long. After looking through various WCCW results, I think the wrestlers you are thinking of are the Magic Dragon & Mr. Pogo. They teamed with each other and with Kabuki on several occasions against the Von Erichs.

Semi-regular questioner, avid reader, have a quick question that just occurred to me after seeing the “debut” of Big Daddy V. I had no idea Viscera was tattooed, and definitely not to the extent that he is.

My favourite right now is Santino Marella’s huge, back-covering lion. There must be a character which can be made for him based on that tattoo, or at least a damned good promo. Remember those C M Punk vignettes, where he talked about his tattoos and what they meant to him? That kind of thing. – Iain

I think candidates for the title of “Most Tattooed Wrestler” have to include The Godfather, Mideon, and Undertaker. All three have a ridiculous amount of tattoos covering most of their body.

I’m not a big tattoo guy, so I think the best tattoo would be the one that makes the most money. Goldberg’s bicep tatoo isn’t anything spectacular, but it appeared on lots of t-shirts that made lots of money. So I’d consider that one to be the best.

Patrick Morone has three questions…

1. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice what’s going on at the RAW main event scene? In 2007, Cena has defended his title against Umaga and Khali, although heels, we all knew they weren’t title material. WM23 had him square off against a face (HBK). Orton is always floating up there, but his attitude is affecting his push. The only top heel we’ve recently seen him feud with is Edge, and he promptly got shipped off to SD when he was really gaining some steam as a heel, although SD needed the heel, still. Now, Cena’s next opponent is Lashley, face. Kennedy’s two appearances on RAW had him lose in less than 1 minute, then he did the job for his team in the tag main event last RAW. King Booker remains to be seen, but I do notice a trend. Is HHH holding his top heel spot so he can have it all to himself? They don’t seem to be building any top heels or letting any heels run with it over on RAW? They’re hyping a HHH return video (which has an awesome remix of his HEEL music). So do you really think HHH is using his clout to keep the heel scene on RAW weak so he can come back and dominate? Or is this all sheer coincidence?

I don’t think this is the result of a vast Triple H conspiracy. I guess you can’t rule it out, but I think WWE sees Randy Orton as a guy that can be a top heel when he’s motivated. The problem is that he’s rarely ever motivated and usually getting himself in trouble. King Booker is worthy of being a top heel, and Mr. Kennedy is on the verge of getting there if they don’t keep jobbing him out. Just this week on Raw, Kennedy went over Lashley, and Carlito cheated to beat John Cena. I don’t think Raw is as lacking of heels as you think it is. They just need to push them better so people can believe that they have a chance against Super Cena.

2. What happened to the Anaconda Vice? Is there a reason CM Punk no longer uses it? The GTS is a cool finisher, but I’ve always thought smaller wrestlers are better suited with a submission finisher.

I remember when Punk started using it in ROH, and I had no idea what the hell he was trying to do. It hasn’t gotten that much better since then…and Go 2 Sleep just looks so much cooler. He might use the Vice again when he has to face bigger wrestlers that he can’t do the Go 2 Sleep on.

3. What are the odds of seeing Lesnar ever wrestle full time in the US again, and would it be in TNA or WWE (your opinion)? And if it were WWE, do you think Vince would make him climb the ladder or thrust him right into the main event (where he belongs!)

I don’t like the chances of seeing Brock Lesnar appear in either a WWE or TNA ring. Or any other wrestling ring in America. His MMA career seems to be going pretty well thus far, and I think he has more interest in that than he ever did in pro wrestling. It’s not impossible because eventually he might want some money, but I wouldn’t count on it happening anytime soon. Were Brock to return to WWE, I think Vince would have him main event right away…so he could put over whoever the champion was. He’d probably be sent to the mid-card to flounder afterwards, because Vince likes to let people know who’s in charge.

I recently saw a photo of Mabel/Viscera/Big Daddy V holding a King of the Ring championship belt. Up until then, I never knew such a belt existed. Was it a one time thing given to him when he won the KotR in 1995 or was it custom made for him? Thanks. – Jesselee

Mabel had it made for himself by noted belt maker Reggie Parks. It was a one-time deal that wasn’t awarded by the WWF…Mabel just wanted to have a cool belt. Who can blame him?

Here’s some pictures of said title belt. I have to admit that I don’t remember ever seeing this belt on television.

Who were the Gold Dust Trio? Were they a faction or anything of the sort? – Al

The Gold Dust Trio basically controlled the world of professional wrestling during the 1920s. It consisted of Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Billy Sandow & Toots Mondt. Lewis was the perennial world heavyweight champion at the time, considered by most to be the best wrestler in the world. Sandow was his manager, and Mondt was the enforcer. To draw a parallel to another famous wrestling group, Lewis was Ric Flair, Mondt was Arn Anderson, and Sandow was J.J. Dillon. Mondt came up with a new style of wrestling that led to what you see today in wrestling rings across the country, a style that was more entertaining than the old style, which featured matches with little action lasting for hours at a time. The three started promoting this style on a larger scale, and with the money they made they could hire more wrestlers to join their promotion and decimate anybody in their path. They split up in 1928.

The name “Gold Dust Trio” is attributed to author Marcus Griffin, who referred to these three men as the Gold Dust Trio in his 1937 book titled “Fall Guys”. I’m fairly certain that Lewis didn’t run around talking about how awesome the Gold Dust Trio was and hold three fingers up in the air while doing so.

Has there ever been so many active black wrestlers at once, whether it be in WWE or throughout the industry? I’ve been watching for 18 years or so and cant remember a time when there were so many black superstars regularly on tv. Just to run them down, theres King Booker, Bobby Lashley, Elijah Burke, Marcus Cor Von, Boogeyman, MVP, JTG, Chad, Shelton Benjamin, Mark Henry and Viscera. And for non wrestlers you have Jonathan Coachman, Queen Sharmell, Ron Simmons, Krystal and Teddy Long. and thats just WWE, I didnt even count TNA. – xzhibit007

One of the most positive developments in recent wrestling history has been the increase of African-Americans in the sport. It’s hard to believe that there was a time where it was against the law in most states for black wrestlers to compete against white wrestlers. African-Americans have risen to the top of most sports in America, so it’s only natural that wrestling would have more black athletes featured in prominent roles than at any point in its history.

Am I missing something? Because many columns on 411 recently have said that Rey Mysterio coming back to Smackdown would be breach of continuity because he lost a Loser Leaves Smackdown I Quit match. As far as my memory goes I can only remember the only stipulation being the I Quit part. Can you clear the record straight? – Henry Gomes

The loser of the match was supposed to leave Smackdown…but it never said for how long. It’s lasted longer than most “loser leaves town” stipulations, so I think people complaining about this are just bitching for the sake of bitching. That happens a lot on the Internet.

Let’s wrap it up with some Manu Bumb questions!

so while watching the wrestling family dvd, they’re including EVERYONE, even if its only for a few minutes.

oh, that brings up a question – in WCW, who was the guy that walked around the ring, carrying the NZ flag for the sheepherders? they left the company, he didnt, and i think was featured for a few more weeks against people they were feuding with before they left.

The Sheepherders had two different people serve as flagbearers, and both would continue representing New Zealand after the Sheepherders left, calling themselves the New Zealand Militia. They were Rip Morgan & Jack Victory. You may remember Victory from his later stint in ECW alongside Steve Corino…I have no idea where you’d remember Morgan from.

while watching the “Wrestling families” dvd, they show a map of america during the McMahon segment, and all the various territories outlined, which i thought was interesting because i had never seen this done before and started watching wrestling right after the territory system fell. One thing I noticed was in the far western part of canadia, right above the Don Owen territory (washington and oregon), is All Star Wrestling, run by Al Tomko………..is tyson any relation to him? either by family, or training/looking up to? anything at all, or just a big coincidence?

I believe it’s just a coincidence. Al was based in Manitoba, while Tyson was born in Jacksonville, Florida and started his wrestling training under Hack Meyers in Florida.

how big is the OVW ring? looks tiny on the wrestling families dvd.

I believe it’s the same size as an indy ring, which is 16X16.

why the heck did they make the HitC cage taller for the DX/McMahons match? I mean, it wouldve made sense if HBK climbed to the top (on the inside or out), but no one did jack with the higher cage

My guess is that they needed to make it bigger in order to contain Big Show and the egos of all the men involved in the match.

What?