411’s Buy or Sell 09.07.07: Misawa vs. Kobashi, BOLA Champion CIMA, Steroids on the Independent Scene, and more!

Larry Csonka : SELL. I think that it will have an effect on companies like Ring of Honor and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla. It is the trickle down effect. WWE got served with the Congressional letter, and while they complied they were sure to mention that TNA existed. So TNA got the letter, as they should but in relation the NWA got the letter, since up until a few months ago it WAS NWA:TNA Wrestling, and they used the NWA Titles. Once again, the NWA is a joke, not organized or anything resembling a real company, but they got served. They’ll pass the buck and say, “what about these groups Ring of Honor and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla?” It is a trickle down effect, passing the buck, it always happens. Also, you have to know that some of these guys on the Independents use Online Prescription services due to them being cheaper and “non-discrete.” It is only a matter of time before some of these guys pop up on these lists as the companies get busted, and I feel that in some way, they will be effected. Maybe not on the same level as WWE and or TNA, but they will be effected.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . Though I say this for different reasons than Larry. I don’t believe that Independent companies are going to be getting “ratted out” or whatever by the bigger companies. I also don’t believe that any indy wrestlers are going to be popping up on lists of customers from busted online pharmacies because Sports Illustrated and anyone else doing this kind of detective work is mainly trying to nail WWE and possibly, to a lesser extent, TNA. Nobody cares what Dunn & Marcos are doing. What’s more is that a lot of these indy companies are even less organized than the NWA is. With the exception of ROH, no independent companies I know of have wrestlers under contract, meaning the indy promoters don’t assume the kind of responsibility for the conduct of their performers in the way WWE does. What’s more, if anybody ends up getting canned by WWE for Wellness-related issues, there’s a pretty good chance you’re going to see them end up working for indies that don’t care if they live or die beyond the end of their match. I have no doubt that Nick Dinsmore’s already lining up his indy bookings. In fact, I think the availability of these newly-unemployed wrestlers is about the extent of the effect this will have on indies.

1 for 1.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I have to buy this one. Now don’t get we wrong, I don’t thing that he needs a super drastic change, but I do think that it is time that he re-evaluates his in ring style. I am sure ROH fans will not be happy with me on this one, but it is time. While Danielson is still a young man, 26 I believe, nothing shortens your in ring ability, time and money making worth than injuries. Last year it was the shoulder, which he questionably worked through. He could have been much worse off, but thankfully wasn’t. He took off the time, rehabbed, got better, strong and came back and was the same Danielson we al know and love. But now, not that long after his return he is re-injured again. This one a severe injury to the eye an orbital bone, which is leaving him a 90% chance of seeing out of that eye. It is this injury that leads me to believe that he has to make some changes. Danielson is, for lack of a better word a stiff wrestler. He likes shit to look real, and the best way sometimes to make shit look real is to lay it in there and hit the guy. If the guy doesn’t mind, then it is cool. Regal, Finaly, Benoit and Jericho in any combination tended to do this with each other because they had an understanding, and in that case it is fine. Some will say that these guys are always stiff, while I would argue that they are snug, there is a difference. Bret Hart always claimed his greatest accomplishment was never hurting anyone in the ring. That is a great accomplishment. Danielson really needs to re-evaluate things I feel, back off a bit, be snug and not all out. You can still have great matches without killing each other, I just hope Danielson realizes that because he is good enough to be awesome without hurting others or getting hurt himself. Get well dude, and use your head.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . I don’t think his style has anything to do with the injuries he’s received. Both the shoulder injury and this eye injury were freak accidents, and those things will happen. The thing about Bryan Danielson is that while he does tend to work stiff sometimes, he’s also smart enough to not get his skull beaten into oblivion in every match. While he has had a few very stiff headbutt-fests with Nigel McGuinness, and while the Morishima injury was an unfortunate occurence, these types of things are infrequent enough that I don’t consider them to be necessarily representative of Danielson’s style, especially when you consider how extensive his repertoire really is. I think he spends more than enough time doing 45 minute wrestling matches that he can get away with a stiff-fest every now and then.].

1 for 2.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I would have to say buy here. I liked the PURE title, I thought it was a good concept and gimmick, but overall I don’t think it worked how they wanted to, and instead of constant tweeking and changing of rules, they decided to smartly not insult the fans, unify it and basically use the FIP Title as a secondary belt. ROH has showcases their world title very well, as well as the tag team titles, which have been raised to a level about equal with the ROH title, due to the Danielson like run the Briscoe Brothers have had. Now, while not a “real” secondary belt, the FIP title adds another title defense on shows, with guys that are almost always ROH as well as FIP guys. The fan base knows them, they like the title matches and it is good cross promoting to have the fans buy the FIP DVD’s. Add into it that they will get SHIMMER title defenses as well and the fans are happy. So yes, overall a very good decision by ROH. Now that the roster is expanded and they are on PPV, they can re-explore an “ROH” secondary title in 2008 if they so wish.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . I never thought the demise of the Pure Wrestling Title was a good idea. I thought it was a good way of establishing good wrestling technicians as top names, and by getting rid of the title it leaves ROH with one less way of getting people over. Though he’s a great talent, I don’t believe Nigel McGuinness would have developed anywhere near as well as he did without using the Pure Title as a springboard. The other thing I really liked about the Pure Title was that, while it was never put forward as the top title in the company, it was also never treated as a “secondary” title either. When Nigel held the Pure Title it was held in the same regard as the World Title, and Nigel’s challengers were often at least as strong as Bryan Danielson’s challengers, if not stronger. The point is that I think there was a lot more that could have been done with the Pure Title, and the FIP Title is certainly no substitute for it.

1 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Stuart Carapola : SELL . I admit that I’m not as up to date on the happenings in PWG as I would like, but I looked at the results and I’m familiar with most of the guys who appeared in the tournament, and that was one stacked field. With a group of guys like that, I think PWG would have had a lot more to gain by having CIMA kick ass on his way to the finals only to be upset in the final match than they would by having him come in and win and never show up again, or appear sporadically. This leads us to the other problem with booking big Japanese names, and that’s that you don’t have as much freedom to book them to lose as you would with US indy talents. By bringing a guy like CIMA in, you’re basically guaranteeing one of two things: either he’s going to come in and beat everyone and win, or there’s going to be some kind of screwy “non-loss” loss. I’ve been seeing it for years in ROH, and if it’s going to happen in ROH, it’s going to happen in PWG. I don’t have a problem with bringing in guys like CIMA in general, but not in a tournament situation where you can get somebody else over by giving them the tournament win instead.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I have to disagree here with young Stuington here. The PWG roster is great, the other guys they brought in were great and overall the field was VERY strong, even when losing Danielson. Now while there can be problems with bringing in Japanese talent, there are also benefits. PWG is looking to mass market these DVD’s, especially to the Internet audience. The Internet wrestling fans LOVE the guys in PWG and the added incentive of a guy like CIMA not only coming in, doing well and then winning adds to the want to buy. Plus when CIMA comes back, he’ll pull a big return job and all will be well I feel. I have no problem with this, and actually it does make me want to buy the DVD’s more. In the end people don’t buy the tournament to see a “PWG” guy win, and so on and so forth. They buy it based on the field and the event, which has just completed a 2nd straight strong year. CIMA winning was just an added bonus I feel.

1 for 4.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . As much as all of us ROH fans would love nothing better than to have Joe come home, the fact of the matter is there’s no good reason for it to happen. For one, even though Joe isn’t the guy carrying TNA right now like we all would like, the fact is that he is still in a pretty good position, is main eventing PPVs, and despite being consistently defeated by Kurt Angle, he is still seen as Angle’s equal by the fans. Plus, there’s the little matter of Joe making more money in TNA than he was in Ring Of Honor, which was the entire reason he made the jump to begin with. I know we as fans like to think that the wrestlers do what they do for the love of the business, and I agree that this is true to a certain extent, these guys are in it to make money, and it’d be bad business for Joe to effectively move backwards in his career. On top of all that, Gabe Sapolsky has spoken about how Joe became very hard to book toward the end of his run due to the fact that he’s literally done everything there is to do in ROH, and everything he would do from there on out would be a rehash. I could be wrong and he could come out one day and defeat Morishima to reclaim the ROH World Title out of nowhere, but I think Joe’s days in ROH are done.

Larry Csonka : SELL . I will agree with Stu here. While we as fans may be very disappointed in the way that Joe has been booked in TNA and that he has not climbed the mountain as quickly as we had hoped, the facts are this. Joe is making a lot of money is TNA, and Joe is a major player in TNA. He is near the top of the card, is always on TV, is always on PPV, he gets mic time and is still booked strong, not the greatest booking, but he is still strong. And then there is Stu’s point that Joe was had to work into booking because of his, for lack of a better word, legendary ROH Status. He did it all there, and IF he would leave TNA it would be for a regular WWE contract or for him to go to Japan, not back to ROH kids, sorry.

2 for 5.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . While there has been a great deal of interest in the idea of Misawa making a wrestling appearance in ROH, and while it is no small deal for Misawa to appear for them, it is in no way as big a deal as it was when Kobashi came to ROH in 2005. Kobashi’s match with Samoa Joe was almost universally praised as ROH’s Match Of The Year in 2005, but having been there to see it live, I maintain to this day that the match was not as good as it was made out to be and was blown a little bit out of proportion due to the names involved. But the point I’m trying to make is that in 2005, Kobashi’s appearance was a big enough deal that he could be in the Match Of The Year just by showing up. Two years later, things are a little bit different. ROH has has more than its fair share of visitors from Japan and elsewhere since Kobashi came to town, and ROH’s product has grown by leaps and bounds in just two short years. Production values have improved and, no knock against Cheech, Cloudy, and the Carnage Crew, but the talent pool in ROH in 2007 is just head and shoulders above what it was in 2005. The ROH of today is a much more solid product that can more than stand on its own and doesn’t need special appearances anywhere near as much as it did two years ago. While I don’t think it was the holy event some make it out to be, Kobashi’s ROH appearances were special, and by this point Misawa’s appearance is going to be little more than another one-time guest star.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I have to buy this and disagree with Stu here. When Kenta Kobashi appeared for the company in 2005, it was truly a huge deal. When they went ahead and made the match against Samoa Joe it was a big deal. The match with Joe is the shit, I love that match, it was absolutely tremendous. Into 2006 ROH had a tremendous year to follow that, and they brought in more people from NOAH, and it has paid dividends. In 2007, the ROH product is still good, not as great as it was, but it is still a damn fine product. They are on PPV, they are delivering great in ring product and basically being, Ring of Honor. But when Kenta Kobashi appeared for the company in 2005, it was a one time HUGE thing. For a company like ROH, there is usually no following that up. You pull the rabbit from the hat, and that’s that. But the fact is that they have been able to grow the relationship with NOAH so much that not only do we see Morishima as champion and KENTA in ROH a lot, but NOAH has the respect of ROH to send Mitsuharu Misawa to America to perform on two show. THAT is why it is a bigger deal, not just that it is Mitsuharu Misawa, but the fact that ROH has grown and earned the respect of the Japanese promotion and grew enough that NOAH though enough of them to let them have Mitsuharu Misawa after they got the gift of Kenta Kobashi. Excellent work ROH.

2 for 6!

The twenty-first edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 2 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.