411’s Buy or Sell 10.19.07: Survival of the Fittest, Joey Ryan & Karl “Machine Gun Anderson, Human Tornado as an ROH Regular, and more!

Ari Berenstein : SELL. I don’t really see the reason why ROH would want to “surprise” the fans on the West Coast when they really should want to put all their cards on the table and sell the most amount of tickets possible for their west coast debut. I don’t think they’re going to bring in anymore “outside” talent ala the PWG guys since they just finished making the announcements of Human Tornado and Tony Kozina and the cards seem to be pretty much complete as is. I think that since some of the stables aren’t bringing a full pack of wrestlers (Hangmen Three are going without Whitmer and Age of the Fall will go without Black) it’s certainly possible that a surprise run in could happen, but I don’t think it will go down that way. ROH has to sell itself with its name and good wrestling cards–that’s what will get the crowds to bite on returning to see more action.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . I agree completely with Ari, Ring Of Honor has to be going to the west coast with the plan to sell their product to the locals. If they’re going out there selling the same guys they see in the other, more local promotions, then they’re not really selling ROH. As it is, I’m a little iffy about them having as many west coast guys on the cards as they are. Don’t get me wrong, they’re great talents, but unless they’re having them on the card as tryouts, ROH should have probably tried to get more of their own regulars on the card than bringing on local guys.

1 for 1.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . I’m not really sure what is meant by “surprise” match but I’ll take it to mean surprising in terms of quality as opposed to what surprise meant in item 1. I’m trying not to let my bias against Perkins get to me (I don’t think highly of him aside from the Puma persona) but as it is I think there are two other possible matches that can be the “surprise” quality match of the weekend. The first match is another SOTF qualifier and that is Strong vs. Albright. I’d bet dollars to donuts people are underrating this match and don’t expect much out of the heel vs. heel situation. I think fans may be in store for more than bargained for as far as in the ring action with these two. They had a very good match at FIP Unfinished Business 2007 and I think they can do it again here. The other “surprise” match will involve a new talent, and that being Karl Anderson. I think fans will be surprised in how much they enjoy Hero vs. Anderson at the SOTF and Pearce vs. Anderson in San Francisco can also really develop into something nice if both play up the interaction between themselves and the crowd. Both men have wonderful characters to work with and solid in ring ability to carry them through.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . I disagree with Ari on TJ Perkins, I think he’s a great talent who certainly deserves a shot. However, I think the real surprise match is going to be Perkins teaming with Tony Kozina against Davey Richards and Rocky Romero in San Francisco. People who are strictly ROH fans might not be familiar with Perkins and Kozina and think it’s just going to be a straight up NRC squash, but I really think Kozina and Perkins are going to surprise people with how good and fluid they both are. Throw them in there with two consistently solid workers like Richards and Romero and I think people are going to be chanting for them to come back by the end.

2 for 2.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . Make that a very strong buy. While the upset story is always cool by me, newcomers rarely get wins in their first matches, much less tournament matches (e.g. the anticipated debut of Milano Collection AT in the ’05 SOTF where he lost to Joe). I just don’t see it happening against guys like Romero and Hero, who have made their bones in ROH by this point. Besides, Hero and Romero are both important role players in this year’s field. Romero is Strong’s back up and will help his NRC teammate isolate and do damage to opponents. Hero has a feud with Claudio still going and in my opinion both will play up that feud in the finals of the tournament. Of course the “Chris Hero Job Factor” can kick in at any time, but I think even he is above Perkins and Anderson in the ROH depth chart that he can avoid the loss this time.

Stuart Carapola : BUY . Completely agree with Ari on this one. In fact, I’ll go beyond what he said about newcomers rarely getting wins in their debuts, and go so far as to say that Gabe seems to make a point out of making guys job their first time out, probably for the dual purposes of seeing how they’ll handle being made to job right out of the gate as well as to give the ROH regular a rub on the chance that they don’t come back. As Ari says, Chris Hero is liable to job at any moment (which does kill me), but I don’t see him jobbing to Anderson and I definitely don’t see Romero jobbing to Perkins.

3 for 3.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . My pick in Column of Honor was Austin Aries. That choice remains unchanged going into the ROH Roundtable and it remains unchanged going into Buy or Sell. Aries has been receiving a nice push over the last few weeks and that is set to continue into November. I think the story of him coming close but losing the last three tournaments should be paid off in this one, where he finally comes away with the tournament victory.

Stuart Carapola : SELL . While I have this nagging feeling like we’re going to see Bryan Danielson repeat, I think the only logical way to have this tournament end is with an Austin Aries victory. For one, I think Danielson will earn his title shot by beating Nigel to get into the finals and won’t need the tournament victory to get more matches with Nigel. But like Ari said, Aries has been the most famous loser when it comes to Survival Of The Fittest, and having him lose again will just make him look like a choker and somebody who doesn’t deserve an ROH Title shot if that’s the direction they are going with him. Aries has paid his dues in the two years plus since he lost the ROH World Title, and he’s one of the most loyal and over guys they have, and I think he deserves the win here more than anyone. I will say that I expect the tournament to come down to Danielson and Aries to repeat the 2004 final, but if it does, I expect Aries to go over.

4 for 4.

SWITCH~!

Stuart Carapola : SELL . This question is worded in such a way that it is assumed to be a given that Danielson will win. While this is likely to be the outcome of the match (after all, non-title matches exist to allow champions to lose while retaining the title), I don’t think this is necessarily a bad move. In fact, I think it’s an interesting one because no ROH World Champion has been put in a position where they’re expected to lose right after winning the title before, and Nigel would certainly be an underdog considering he’s lost every match he’s had against Danielson in ROH, except for the one draw. The minute Nigel won the title, Danielson and Aries were both immediately thought of as threats to the title, though perhaps Danielson would be the more immediate threat. I expect him to go over Nigel and possibly win SOTF to set up a series of title matches with Nigel, but I think having Nigel win the title and immediately lose is a novel concept for ROH and certainly one worth exploring.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . While I can certainly see Stu’s point about this being a new, unique and intriguing position in ROH title history for a champion to immediately be an underdog, I have a huge problem with this storyline being used with Nigel as of right now. I applauded and enjoyed Nigel winning the title, think highly of him as a wrestler and expect that he can do a great job as champion. However let’s make no bones about it–before he won the title he was on shaky ground with the fans. He came under fire for receiving too many title shots and there were others who believe he was/is depending on his lariats too much to carry him through a match. To take a new champion who is on delicate ground such as this and then immediately place them against one of the top names in the company and a guy who he has never defeated–that is a huge risk. ROH risks costing Nigel momentum and fan faith in his run as champion if he is defeated this soon after becoming champion. There is also something to be said of a “too much, too soon” mentality. Using this match so soon after many people have seen their match of the year candidate on the Driven PPV, while certainly a good draw for the west coast shows, may overexpose the match when its really best saved for a major show down the line. While I won’t ever fault the match quality these two put forth when wrestling each other and I applaud ROH for giving new fans the best on their roster fighting against each other, I remain uncomfortable with it. Then again, it’s not my call to make.

4 for 5.

Stuart Carapola : BUY . I’ll admit I don’t know much about Ryan or Anderson, but I feel like the Briscoes are not only the top tag team in North America right now, but one of the top attractions for ROH period. I think it definitely would have been a better move putting them in a position where they would showcase what they can do as a team rather than breaking them up into singles for the night. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that Nigel McGuinness vs Jay Briscoe is going to be a great match, but I think that whenever you break into a new market, you have to make sure to get over all your top acts, and by not having the Briscoes work as a team in the San Francisco debut, they’re not going to be using them to their (both the Briscoes’ and ROH’s) full potential. I guess Ryan and Anderson would work fine since they’re local, but I really think having the Briscoes work anyone as a team would have been a better move, and maybe save Nigel vs Jay for when they swing back east.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . No offense to Ryan and Anderson here, as I like both of them a lot and would like to see them in ROH on a regular basis. There is just no need for an ROH vs. NWA match to occur at this point, especially on shows meant to promote the ROH product and push their own brand in a new area. Maybe it seems a bit selfish or brash, but that’s what these shows are supposed to be all about–promoting ROH as a brand. You can’t do ROH vs. NWA without things getting political and avoiding stepping on people’s toes. To that extent it makes more sense to run The Briscoes against ROH contracted talent. To address Stu’s concern about The Briscoes fighting in a tag title match instead of Jay getting a singles title shot, well, its my expectation that Mark’s injury is what brought that about. I think Mark’s foot is worse than thought and he is going to see only limited action in the tag match against Age of the Fall at SOTF. That leaves Jay without a dance partner, and the best way to remedy that while at the same time giving new fans a taste of ROH championship quality is to put the ROH World champion against an ROH tag team champion.

4 for 6.

Stuart Carapola : BUY . I don’t know why there would be any other answer to this question. ROH obviously wants this move to be a successful one to possibly open up a new market for themselves since they’ve pretty much saturated the profitable markets in the Northeast and Midwest. I think that they’ve got name value even on the west coast, and while their definition of success may vary (ROH smartly realizes that they’re not going to draw 2,000 fans in every new market first time out), I definitely think that they’re going to have to make a good impression to the live crowd in order to draw them back for any planned return or new DVD customers.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . This is only a buy if we’re talking specifically about going back to the west coast on a somewhat regular basis from now on and that’s not how I interpreted this statement. Otherwise it’s a sell. I think ROH has done right by going to the new markets and hopefully they will receive well, but they’re not going to be broken or bust if they don’t do huge numbers in Las Vegas or San Francisco (which given its a convention show should do fine business at any rate because of convention traffic). There are plenty of other cities to run such as St. Louis or Kansas City in order to continue their expansion and of course they haven’t even gone north of the border yet! There’s plenty of ways to continue to expand and get momentum with new fans, including more advertising of the ROH PPVs and selling DVDs in retail locations, as has been rumored in a recent interview with Ken Gelman (the man behind getting ROH onto PPV). So, yeah, ultimately this is a sell.

4 for 7.

Stuart Carapola : BUY . I have seen guys from outside ROH before and said “This joker would never have a chance of making it in ROH” only to see them go on to do just that enough times that I’m not ready to discount anyone out of hand anymore. Human Tornado definitely has a unique enough style and enough charisma to get over with just about any audience you put him in front of, and I think that after being given a look, he’ll become a regular performer for ROH. I don’t necessarily know that it’ll happen immediately (after all, others such as Matt Sydal, Kevin Steen, El Generico, and Delirious were given sporadic tryouts over time before being brought on regularly), but I think it will happen. The only things I see standing in the way are if he rubs management wrong or if he doesn’t want to start making trips out east to work for ROH.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . Well this is a two part statement and I concur with the first part but not the second, at least not all the way. I think Human Tornado is at a talent level right now where he can put on a very good match and definitely at a level of performance expected of ROH wrestlers. Tornado is matched up with opponents he is familiar with and with whom he can work to impress the crowd and those behind the scenes making the calls about who to book for the future. Of course the larger issue is whether or not Tornado becomes a regular with ROH.In the immediate future, there are a lot of spots locked up already and ROH is looking to concentrate on the stable wars issue. I don’t see much room for Tornado unless he gets involved with that angle. Eventually I say yes he will one day become a regular for ROH, for both his talent level and just the fact that spots open up for ROH every few years and new talent always comes in and becomes regulars. Tornado would have to fall into that category eventually, but I believe he can speed up the process with great performances.

5 for 8.

The twenty-seventh edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 5 for 8. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.

[Editor’s Note: One of the best parts of my week is getting the opportunity to edit Buy or Sell. When we started this project up in early April, it was with the goal of continuing to elevate and improve 411mania’s coverage of Independent wrestling, bringing intelligent and comprehensive discussion of smaller companies closer to the mainstream fan. Though I was not originally slated as the editor for this column, I did appear in the very first edition. It was not until Buy or Sell’s seventh week that Wrestling Zone Editor Larry Csonka asked me to take over the reigns of the column. I believe whole-heartedly in Independent wrestling, which is the reason why I write my weekly Independent Mid-Card column about it and why I edit two other columns that also provide coverage in this area.

All the best,
Samuel Berman
411mania Columnist & Buy or Sell Editor]

IWA May Be Going Out of Business; DVD Sale Info
Ian announced at the shows in Joliet, IL on 10/13 that IWA Mid-South is likely to close its doors on December 7th and go out of business. Fans have been talking on our message board the last few days about what it would take to save IWA Mid-South. This is the update I received from Ian today.
I have spoken to Ian today a few times and have told him how our fans want to know how dire the situation is in terms of seeing an actual number. We have crunched the numbers of what we need to come up with right away to have any sort of a chance at fighting this thing. Ian has been told that a check is on its way from Big Vision for what is due on the deal made for Kings of Extreme. We have heard that before in the past so hopefully since we desperately need it, it is actually on its way. IF the Big Vision check comes this week as promised, we would still need to make AT LEAST $4000 by the end of the week JUST to have a fighting chance at this thing. We would still need QOTDM, DDTTDM and Simply the Best to draw well enough to make money at the gate to be able to keep fighting. Ian has told me that he will have me make an announcement on Monday as to whether or not December 7th will be the last show.

Ian is doing everything he can to try to save IWA. Smart Mark Video is tapped and can’t help any more than they already have. Ian has gotten booked onto several shows where he is going to try to wrestle on 8 shows in 10 days at the end of the month in order and hope and pray that he does well on gimmick sales at those shows. Hopefully he can stay healthy enough to keep up with that kind of a schedule even though he hasn’t done that many shows in such a short amount of time in several years.

Now onto the sale information in order to try to raise this money.

If you spend $100 (5 DVDs), you get $25 off so it would be $75 (plus $8.40 shipping).

For those that can’t afford to spend $83.40, we will also be doing the following sale:

If you buy the 2007 TPI DVD, you get a free $20 DVD…so that would be $40 plus $5 shipping.

You can go to www.paypal.com and make a payment to [email protected] to participate in this sale.

Again, we need to raise $4000 by week’s end just to have a fighting chance at staying in business (and that amount needs to have the Big Vision check get in this week as promised as well). That is the bare minimum as it would not leave any money for advertising but it would at least give us a chance to make money on the next few shows and try to start righting the ship without having all the money coming in for those shows going to paying off other debts.

We will make an announcement on Monday to let everyone know if December 7th will be the end of the road.
You can also make a check or money order payable to MICKIE KNUCKLES and send it to:
IWA Mid-South
PO BOX 21476
Louisville, KY 40221-0476