411’s Buy or Sell 02.01.08: Kota Ibushi, Tag Title Switches, Joey Mercury, and More!

Ari Berenstein : SELL . Not that I disapprove of Richards and Romero winning the straps, in fact far from it. The belts put the NRC over the top right now in the battle for being the “dominant faction” in ROH. Also, Romero an Richards have worked hard and delivered on many shows in the fall and winter, so they definitely deserved the win. Were they the best choice? No, but that’s because I actually think there are so many viable tag teams and teams via factions that you could have given it to any one of them at this point and it would have been fine. I don’t even mind that Age of the Fall lost the belts as quickly as they did (although I would have gone until the Sixth Year Anniversary Show with them and transition the belts there). I had thought there would be a lot of title trades between The Briscoes and Age of the Fall this year, but instead it looks like we’re going to get multiple title changes between the faction teams instead. I think that’s great as it finally gives faction warfare a steady direction and that is that the teams are going to try to prove they are the best by being the ROH tag champs. Although what would really put the title chase over the top would be to allow the “Freebirds Rule” for all factions so that there would be even more unpredictability in what would go down in the tag division. Hey, The Prophecy did it, so can the factions of 2008. Ultimately though, I think what many fans are waiting for are a tag title run by the awesome team of Kevin Steen & El Generico. They are white hot as far as fan popularity right now and I think ROH could really benefit by going all the way with them as top wrestlers in the company.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . It’s hard to argue Ari’s points about the NRC really needing the title win, especially because they were THE original stable formed in RoH prior to the “Faction War” and had yet to hold any real gold and prove they could do anything more than beat up on Aries’ lackeys. I also think a “Freebirds Rule” would be the best way to go as it would allow the entire stable to share in the glory and not just two guys. What I do disagree with him on is that I am disappointed at the timing as AoTF really got their legs cut from under them by losing the belts so fast AND being the first team eliminated. I actually don’t think that EVERY stable are viable as tag champions right now. I can’t see the VS being really strong contenders at this point and Sweet ‘n Sour Inc. don’t have much more than Hero as a real wrestler. I can’t imagine a ‘Super Team’ of Bobby Dempsey and Tank Toland taking out the most hyped stable in RoH in many years. If anything I think there were easily three better choices than Davey and Rocky winning the belts: Steen-Erico, the Briscoes Bros, and Roddy and Rocky. Yes, I actually think Strong would have made for a better partner than Rocky, if nothing else because he is considered the superior wrestler to Davey and it would at least make sense for the leader of one stable to concentrate on beating the leader of another stable who holds the titles. Davey has been treated like such a 1-2-3 Kid in the No Remorse Kliq for so long that having the hottest tag team in RoH at the moment lose to him seems like a bit of a let down.

1 for 1.

[Editor’s Note: The ROH World Tag Team Title win by the No Remorse Corps was boldly predicted by Brad Garoon on the most recent edition of The Cool Kids’ Table.]

Ari Berenstein : SELL . And again, not because Lost & Ryan don’t deserve a shot at being champs again. I think PWG missed the boat on something very simple and logical. You have the DDT4 round robin tournament occurring on the same show as these shenanigans with the belts…why not just hold up the belts and have the winner of the tournament decide the new champions? You could have even reworked the tourney a bit to throw in some more teams and extend the life of the title hunt for a few shows (adding drawing card potential and extra DVD buys). Ryan and Lost are a very capable team going back their X-Foundation days. They’ve been a good roll in PWG over the last few months and I have no problem with them as champions; I just think they should have earned it.

Bayani Domingo : BUY . I think the scenario Ari mapped out would be extremely difficult to put together. If I’m correct in my assumptions I believe that the “no-show” of Davey is either a “work” or was probably a bit of a surprise. While I don’t think PWG would purposely promote a match they KNEW wouldn’t take place I have to wonder if somehow this angle was thought up on the fly. At the show Joey brought up a very good point about the case of Aerial Express having to forfeit their titles after winning it from Arrogance after Scorpio Sky was injured and couldn’t defend their belts on the second night of All-Star Weekend. Points to PWG for continuity, of course it took long enough for them to remember this, hence I think this was a ‘loophole’ for having Davey and Dragon drop the belts and leave room for some future feud to develop if/when Davey is brought back after being “fired” last weekend.

Having SD/Davey forfeit the match and put the titles on “The Dynasty” was not my favorite idea, but it had to be done. As far as I know there are two back to back shows scheduled for April 5th and 6th and I would assume those are either the dates for DDT4. Between now and then there are 3 shows tentatively scheduled and not having tag titles matches for two months would be pretty deflating. I also have to think that PWG is hedging their bets in case something should happen with Low Ki and for some reason he either can’t make a show or two between there or something else happens and PWG is without their World Champion for 2 months. Imagine a scenario where PWG puts on 2 or 3 shows in a row and NO title matches are booked. On this front I think it makes sense to strip the titles from Davey and Dragon because of the continuity from the last precedence and to award Joey/Lost the titles in order to give it stability as no other regular team in PWG seems to be available since PAC is still in Japan, Hero and Claudio broke up, the Briscoes are unreliable, and none of the other teams in the ‘Round Robin Tournament’ are ready yet. Besides, the Dynasty are “heels”…they don’t earn titles, they steal them.

1 for 2.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . I think initially I had this as a Buy but what changed it for me was the idea of talent. I haven’t seen enough of Ibushi to judge his talent as a wrestler. I saw him team up excellently well with KENTA during the NTV cup. So I know he can go. Now obviously ROH has hosted a ton of talented and prestigious Japanese talent, from Morishima on down to KENTA, Marufuji and even Misawa. It doesn’t get much more prestigious than Misawa in ROH. Now, Ibushi may be capable, but how can he compare to Misawa at this point in their careers? It wouldn’t be fair to do so. ROH has hosted some of the best in Puro, and I think in 2008 we’ll get a few more of the developing stars who aren’t at the level of a KENTA or Morishima, but who could certainly get there or be something great in their own right.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . Gotta agree with Ari here. There is no doubt that Ibushi does not have the prestige of the other debuting stars of NOAH or dragon gate, but he DOES have at least as much talent as some of the other men brought over. Off the top of my head I think he is on par with some of the Dragon Gate guys like YAMATO that have been brought in for short runs as well as MISAWA. I know it’s probably puro blasphemy to compare the two, but remember that MISAWA is getting up there in age and after seeing some of Ibushi’s stuff in Dorado, NOAH, and some other matches via youtube I think in his prime he is as talented as an AARP eligible MISAWA is now. With all due respect of course. I think the RoH fans will be in for a treat this year as I kind of see Ibushi as a weird mix between Tyler Black and BxB Hulk. Only without the guy-liner and Harajuku girls.

2 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Bayani Domingo : SELL . I don’t see the logic in Aries trying to lead his own group and then after disbanding them to concentrate on winning the title, decide to join up as a lieutenant in another man’s army. Basically he’d be Jimmy Jacob’s back up, unless Jimmy is promising him support in going after the World Title while Jacobs and Black, Necro, or Matthews go after the Tag Titles again. It would basically be a rehash of The Prophecy where Daniels was the leader, but Xavier was the one with the belt. While I could see Aries turning heel, I can’t really see him joining AoTF. It would basically further push him down towards the mid-card where as he, Danielson, and probably Nigel are the only real proven money players right now. I think the losing streak he is on will eventually lead to him turning heel, I just don’t see him turning heel with the emo kids. Besides, aren’t 5 people in a stable enough in RoH? One more guy and they’re approaching near Corporate Ministry status.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . The temptation is there for Aries to join the Age of the Fall, which is what makes this a very intriguing angle to me. Aries is on a losing streak, failed in his quest to win the ROH World Title and even lost to his former stable buddy in Erick Stevens. Those are ripe conditions to recruit anyone. That said, I think Aries gives it a good think, but ultimately refuses to join with Age of the Fall.

3 for 4.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . I think the lack of buys for the PPVs are less a product of the in-ring work and more a function of the lack of a) promotion, b) limitations for which cable companies carry the PPVs as well as the times they show them, and c) the lag in timing they are shot and actually ready to be shown. There is a big difference between missing the Royal Rumble or Summerslam and ordering the replay a day or two later and ordering them 2 or 3 months after the fact. I think in general fans have a short attention span and if you didn’t get tickets to watch the taping, then you’d probably rather own the DVD for an extra $5 or $10 then watch it one time and record it illeg…I mean…with the express written consent of RoH and your local PPV provider. *Thumbs Up*

I know I haven’t bothered ordering a PPV from RoH and I’m a big fan. After I found out there are only certain days I can watch it and at certain times, it became a big hassle. I’d rather buy the DVDs. While I think RoH did a good job of trying to get the PPVs out there as a means of promoting their product rather than making money off it, I think the next step for them is to start showing them live. I would dare to guess that buyrates would probably increase at least 50% if they were able to do PPVs live. Or at the very least by the Sunday night following them. RoH is in a real tough position for them because while they are still growing as a company, they are still a very large Indy company with Indy company funds. Even the latest news of “cost cutting measures” is a bit troubling, but at this point they really need to decide what the next steps in ’08 are going to be. Do they start trying to expand internationally or domestically? If the answer is the latter than a focus on improving the lag between PPV tapings and showing has to be tightened way up.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . The PPVs were taped with the idea in mind that they would sell new fans on the DVD product and increase product awareness. Well, while more fans on the internet now are aware of ROH, that has also led to some hardened WWE and TNA fans rejecting the product for a number of reasons from the “lack of stars” to the “no selling” to the actual selling point of the product, the concentration more on wrestling than sports entertainment. It looks like ROH went out to find new fans and while it did get a couple, it has found out that they are more like ECW than they knew–it is for now a niche product due to it (in the minds of these fans) not being on the production or sports entertainment level of WWE. That said, if those fans are not going to buy the PPVs and there is only a small increase in the number of newer buyers, then its time to close shop on PPV for now, even with the rave reviews they have received. I also have to completely disagree with Bayani about putting on live PPV shows as they are an extra burden of cost and without a TV show to promote the product would result in just as many (Or fewer) buyers as their current situation (running the show on multiple replays). I do agree with Bayani that they need to figure out what they want to do with the promotion of the product and fast.

3 for 5.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . Who would be an overwhelming choice? I know a lot of people threw around some bigger names like Raven, Vampiro, or even Christopher Daniels, but who really believes those guys would fall in line to be a solider in another man’s army? I also heard Marek Brave, Josh Abercrombie, Nate Webb, and Arik Cannon, even Shiima Xion, but those guys aren’t really big names on the East Coast or have a huge following outside of maybe Webb due to his CZW tenure. Then you have the “King of Diamonds”, but really Kingston is a much better fit with the Vulture Squad as the big man of their group instead of being pushed in with Necro Butcher who is just as much a brawler as he is. My top choice, and don’t laugh, would have been Teddy Hart. If nothing else because he really does fit the same description as the AoTF were talking about as well as bringing in more heat than furnace. If AoTF REALLY wanted to be the top heel faction in RoH then bring in the most hated man in the history of the company…not to be arrested for pedophilia.

Still Matthews is decent choice. He fits the bill and he is a good worker who won’t over shadow the rest of the group because he isn’t a “huge” name or isn’t a “huge” wrestler. Just imagine seeing a guy like Chris Harris debut and making everyone else seem tiny by comparison. I think Joey is a middle of the road choice and thus not “underwhelming”. In fact there weren’t a lot of great choices to join the group that wasn’t already on the roster. Do I think Joey Matthews is a great choice? No. But he’ll do. I was certainly surprised by the announcement, but I wasn’t blown away. I really do question the logic of bringing in ex-WWE guys like Puder and Matthews into a company which usually strives to bring in younger and cheaper unknowns into the mix and making them into a star, but lord knows you can’t question the genius that is Gabe or else the RoHbots will hunt you down to the ends of the earth…or at least shoot a scathing youtube “shoot” on you.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . Well, Bayani pretty much went one by one and told you about why some of the bigger independent names available wouldn’t have fit (although Mercury is a pretty big name talent in his own right considering his WWE past). So I’ll just stick with this–Mercury fits in Age of the Fall because he has a legitimate reason to hate the “system”. He has a great look and is a very good wrestler. If he stays on the straight and narrow I see no reason why he wouldn’t continue to do well as a part of the Age of the Fall.

4 for 6!

The forty-first edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 4 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.