411’s Buy or Sell 6.20.08: Bryan Danielson, Speed Muscle, Mike Quackenbush, and More!

Steve Cook : BUY . I have to admit one caveat though…the Colony is already getting over pretty big in CHIKARA, so Fire Ant getting the victory in the YLC doesn’t come as that big of a shock to me as it might to some other people. They got to the Semi-Finals in the King of Trios Tournament earlier this year, which is further than anybody thought they would get. I think it’s pretty obvious that the CHIKARA higher-ups like Leonard Chikarason and Dave Coulier are high on the Colony, and they will continue to be featured in big matches in the future.

John Gregory : BUY . Unlike Cook, I was a bit shocked at a Colony member picking up the YLC win. Their advance in the King of Trios tournament aside, I just didn’t think it would happen. But it means big things because it obviously cements what has been happening for months now: the evolution of the Colony from opening match comedy act to somewhere in CHIKARA’s upper echelon.

1 for 1.

Steve Cook : SELL . Quack as a heel? In CHIKARA? Sorry, I just can’t buy that. The CHIKARA fans love Quack more than any other wrestler in the history of the world, and quite frankly they should. I talked to my boy Ghetto about this…Ghetto is as big a fan of CHIKARA as you’ll find in the state of California, and he tells me that the fans have been waiting for Storm to turn heel since about 2005 or so. Honestly, the question here comes down to the question of if fans would boo “Lightning” Mike Quackenbush, and quite frankly I don’t think they would. They would cheer that man over anybody else in professional wrestling, and that includes Shane Storm. If Quack believes that Storm taught the rudos the CHIKARA Special, the fans will believe it too.

John Gregory : BUY. Now, normally I would agree that Quack is among the ranks of the un-boo-able in pro wrestling. The man simply is too good to hate. However, last year in Fight Sports Midwest, Quackenbush faced Tiger Mask IV for the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, and Quack came out unusually aggressive, tearing off Tiger Mask’s mask to win the match and the title in order to send a message to Japan for ignoring him all these years. He definitely got booed that day. It all depends on how heinous a man’s actions seem to the crowd, and while I concede that Quack definitely needs to be more heinous than most, it can be done and he can be booed. Shane Storm would have try hard as well, but I think if Quack adopts a much different and much more negative persona, the fans will cheer Storm possibly in a young plucky technico vs. the old veteran asshole rudo type scenario.

1 for 2.

Steve Cook : SELL . For heaven’s sake, he only won the title in March! Can’t we give the fat kid several months before we deem him as a failure? God almighty. That’s the problem with you Interweb wrestling fans, you just can’t wait and let anything play itself out before you start saying it sucks. The same thing happened with Marafuji, and we ended up getting stuck with Misawa as a champion. Do you really want the fat kid replaced by some old bastard who can’t even move? I think that’s what you want, and that makes me sick. Let the young guns have a chance, by cracky! Be patient! Don’t give Old Man Misawa an excuse to put the belt on some old a-hole that can’t move around the ring anymore, or even worse, put it on himself. Why are you encouraging him? Do you want to suffer? Guhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

John Gregory : SELL . If I could write sell twenty more times, I would. Let’s look at this way. Morishima had his first defense on June 14th at Yokohama Bunka Gymnasium that drew 3600. The last time that I could find when they ran in that building was June 8th of 2007, where they drew 3,200. So there was some increase. Morishima’s reign must be give time to build as much credibility as it can, because really he is the saving grace for NOAH. The company has mostly relied on the old All Japan aces at the top, but at this point all of them, with the exception of Jun Akiyama, are just too old and beaten down, and the torch has to be passed. Just like Jumbo Tsuruta passed it onto Misawa back in 1990, Misawa did that to Morishima this year. But it will take time to develop, so having any sort of kneejerk reaction like they did with Marifuji will be very harmful to the company’s longterm future.

2 for 3.

SWITCH~!

John Gregory : SELL . Why the hell not? ROH already proved they could draw a 2000+ crowd in Hammerstein without any big mainstream names (and no, Sabin and Shelley don’t count). If the argument is they must only draw with their regular crew, well, they already did. What harm could Flair appearing do except drawing in some new fans? Gosh, that’d be a shame, if someone came to see the Nature Boy, saw the ROH product and became a new fan. It’s the same thing as when Foley, Steamboat, Bruno, Cornette, Heenan, Watts, and others appeared; the regular fanbase enjoys it, it can draw in some new fans, and it doesn’t overshadow the main show. It can only help.

Steve Cook : SELL . I’m not saying ROH had much of a chance of getting Flair, as it seems like this whole “Flair available for indy dates” thing has been blown way out of proportion. He was pulled off the NWA Anniversary show, and obviously this was a no-go as well. So I guess Ric Flair’s available for indy dates…just not anywhere that anybody would give a damn about. But what does it hurt for Cary or Gabe or whoever to dial up Flair’s people and see if he’s interested? They had absolutely nothing to lose and plenty to gain. It’s not like anybody would boycott the show on account of Flair being there. Well, maybe there’s one sicko out there who would, but their opinion doesn’t matter anyway.

3 for 4.

John Gregory : SELL. Well, let’s examine the two companies, shall we? TNA has Vince Russo, a man who has a borderline racist mentality on foreign talent, saying the fanbase doesn’t want to see them and definitely doesn’t want to cheer them. Now while Russo isn’t entirely in charge, even if a few were brought in, they wouldn’t be booked strong and it’d be a short, failed experiment. Now for WWE, they did express interest in Morishima last year, and while they might in fact get behind a Japanese talent, I believe they would:
a) Put them into a plain “evil foreigner” type character that has been to done to death and even the Kool Aid drinkers wouldn’t go for.
b) Force the talent to conform to a WWE style, which is about as different from puro style as you can get, especially if you’re talking guys from Dragon Gate.

On top of that, do the puro companies really want to give up talent to WWE or TNA for anything more than a learning excursion? Would either company in the US want the talent in that case? I think there’s just too many obstacles for any of it to happen.

Steve Cook : BUY. I hate to put over other writers on the staff because my fragile ego dictates that I can’t admit that anybody else is good, but I read a column this week that explains my stance on this perfectly. While I disagree with the main point of W.S. Thomason’s article, he is correct in saying the following:

“The WWE has used this same strategy since Vince McMahon obtained the company in 1982. They scout the competition for strengths, co-opt ideas that they can weave into the WWE fabric, and then sign away talent that may or may not be getting top billing but who always play a vital role in the rival’s ability to deliver their product. The AWA, Jim Crockett Promotions, Stampede Wrestling, and ECW are some of the organizations that have been bled dry by this approach. The only company that has been able to successful counter McMahon conquest was the Nitro-era WCW, but they were not able to sustain their own momentum and eventually fell in line with all of the other victims.”

One of the popular talking points among WWE marks is that no other wrestling promotion matters and nothing they do is on WWE’s radar. This could not be further from the truth. Like Thomason says in his article, WWE has responded to the success of TNA’s Knockout division by adding more emphasis on competition in their women’s division. They briefly attempted to push the cruiserweights in response to TNA’s X Division, but they quit trying once they realized that wasn’t going to be one of their strengths. WWE is always keeping an eye on what’s going on in the wrestling world, and if Japanese wrestlers become a more frequent & popular part of TNA programming, you can bet that WWE’s going to find some Japanese guys of their own and see if they can make it work. Now, I’m not saying that either company will use them right and I’m not saying that a lot of the guys will want to stick around here very long. But if these guys get over, WWE & TNA would be fools not to try and capitalize off of it.

3 for 5.

John Gregory : SELL. I truly believe Dragon will leave for WWE someday. The longstanding word is he has a open door whenever he wants, and he’d be a fool not to try it at some point. But I don’t think it’s going to be this year. Danielson has all the bargaining power if there’s a deal, because WWE needs him way more than he needs them. He can dictate the terms, which I would guess would include not going to developmental, and I think WWE would take a while to warm up to those demands until Vince was convinced that Dragon was worth it. That’s why I don’t see it happening until at least his ROH contract is up.

Steve Cook : BUY . I’m not buying what Gregory’s selling when he says that WWE needs Danielson way more than he needs them. Sure, it’s a popular sentiment among us indy fans that WWE would be better off with a Bryan Danielson or a Nigel McGuinness or a Sara Del Rey or whoever. But the fact is that this whole wrestling thing is a business, and a talented pro wrestler would be foolish not to go and seek work at the highest level where you can reach the highest audience and make the most money. I’m not aware of Danielson’s financial situation, but unless he’s got loaded parents or won the lottery at some point, I gotta believe that it’d be better off if he was working for WWE. Given ROH’s rumored financial issues, I don’t think it’d be a good idea to rely on them remaining economically viable. It’s fun to wrestle when you want and where you want, but at some point you gotta make the jump. Bryan Danielson has accomplished all he can as an American independent wrestler. He’s dominated in the States, he’s had success in Japan & Europe and now he’s working in Mexico. Only one thing remains, and I think the American Dragon is ready to make the jump.

3 for 6!

The Sixty First edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.