411’s Buy or Sell 11.07.08: Brodie Lee, Nigel McGuiness, Claudio Castagnoli, and More!!

Chris Lansdell : BUY. PWG is the one US Indy that I have yet to check out, but I do follow their news. BoLA was postponed and delayed and rescheduled so often that I’m sure many people just could not be bothered trying to figure out when it was. When you add in the TNA events running the same area on the same weekend, events featuring Indy darlings like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles…the writing was on the wall even before the opening bell. It really says something when Indy fans will avoid a card with so much high-level talent on it (Danielson, Aries, Hero AND McGuinness on the same card?!) and PWG need to see this as a wake-up call: stop jerking the fans around!

Michael Bauer : BUY. I have to buy this, but not for the poor management as much as the scheduling issues, though they do go hand in hand. The problem is that PWG had to delay this tournament enough and then got blindsided by TNA coming to town in the same weekend. Now, you really have two options. Delay the damn thing again or just say fuck TNA and run the show. What they did was neither. The moved the show earlier into the day to alow people to see both. But here is the problem? Who in their right mind wants to spend an entire day watching wrestling? If I had tickets to TNA (and god help me if I ever do), I wouldn’t tire myself out watching another event first. Now granted, part of that is not PWG’s fault, but part of it is as they put themselves in this spot by having to delay the event in the first place.

1 for 1.

Chris Lansdell : SELL. RoH is a big indy. They have a lot of guys to showcase, some of whom didn’t really get a chance in July in Toronto. Sure Claudio had an awesome match last time he was here, and the lucky bastards who are going to the shows would love to see him, but I dare say they won’t be disappointed with the cards they’re getting. On the flipside, Claudio-Quack is always a good match, and the European fans will be in for a treat. I hope I can track down a copy of the DVD when it hits.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Chris, you were one of those lucky bastards the first time and I finally got the DVD to see the awesomeness that happened there, but more on that later. Here’s the thing. Claudio vs Quackenbush is an amazing match, no question. But man, I would love a Claudio vs. Danielson match before Danielson’s big title match. I would love to see some match that doesn’t spell S-Q-U-A-S-H with the Briscoes on Friday Night’s event. Hell, I’d even take a Claudio vs. Jerry Lynn rematch instead of Lynn facing Emo-lerious. The point is that the expansion into Canada is a HUGE deal for Ring of Honor. And Claudio is one of their biggest stars. He should be there for this event, much like the need for maybe Chris Hero as well.

1 for 2.

Chris Lansdell : BUY. Not because I think they will be weak, but because the last time they hit Canada they had three matches that were legit ****+, an atomic crowd who had been clamouring for some RoH action and a Canadian with a 1-on-1 title shot. As I said above, the cards are strong (especially the return of Kenny Omega, for whom I am rapidly becoming a huge shill) and both nights should be great, but the début was one of the best shows I have seen. Part of that might be a bias from being there, but that’s my prerogative. Buy the DVD and try to disagree.

Michael Bauer : BUY. I have to buy this, as I started to say in the last question. Ring of Honor put a huge foot forward in their debut in Canada, on what was a night before a Pay Per View taping. Generally, this would be the typical “B” show for the weekend. Now, while you have some great matches on both nights, you also have a lot of much weaker matches that look even weaker than the last show in Toronto. Let’s comapre a little bit:

July’s Main Event: No DQ Match – The Briscoes vs. The Age of the Fall
Friday’s Main Event (projected) – Nigel defends the RoH World Title against Kevin Steen, El Generico, and Go Shioazaki
Saturday’s Main Event (projected) – Steen and Generico defend the Tag Titles against The Briscoes

Yes, clearly the edge goes to Saturday’s debut in Montreal for the projected main event. But the rest of the card from top to bottom lacks overall. Yes, we have Aries and Jacobs part 2. But you also have Nigel McGuinness defending the title against… Necro Butcher?? Since when does he deserve a shot? And we have Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson. That should be goo… wait, Kenny Omega is in there as a triple threat? Why??? Friday’s card isn’t much better once you get past Jacobs and Tyler Black facing Danielson and Aries. The Briscoes have a squash match to lead to their title shot. At least Brodie Lee vs. Necro looks interesting. But the show from July had Danielson vs. Claudio as probably the fourth best match on the card. Fourth! When Danielson is not in the top two, you know you have an insane lineup. Beyond the main event was Nigel vs. Steen, Roderick vs. Marufuji, and Lance Storm showing up. There is simply no comparison.

2 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Michael Bauer : BUY. Yeah, let’s face it. Ring of Honor will not let anyone be a double champion. Definitly not Go Shiozaki, probably not El Generico, and while Kevin Steen could be, I’d expect the Briscoes to do it before he ever did. While the match will probably end up as another rematch between Nigel and Steen, it does make for an interesting story of Generico and Steen having to possibly face each other. Outside of that, I expect Nigel to retain, Steen to be the runner up as he once again teases winning the title in Canada, Go to be elimianted first, and way too much drama for this match as it probably goes to a time limit match with the rest of the card being so thin.

Chris Lansdell : BUY. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: the RoH title will not change hands outside of a PPV setting for the foreseeable future. They have too much invested in the PPV project to change the major title on a DVD show. As Mr Bauer says, none of the people in this match is likely to become RoH’s first ever double champion. I can’t see either Briscoe winning the world title, and they’re not terribly popular in FIP. Really I only give Aries or Danielson a chance at double gold, and that’s an outside shot. Steen will probably get eliminated early to give Generico (also Canadian) a chance in the hometown limelight, only for the match to go to a time limit draw or for Nigel to pull out another one. Canada got a predictable card last time with Danielson-Castagnoli and McGuinness-Steen, and in my mind it did not hurt the actual event. That said, this match is only going to end one way: Nigel on top.

3 for 4.

Michael Bauer : BUY. don’t know why, but from what I have seen from Brodie Lee, he just seems like a a less psycho version of The Necro Butcher. It should make his match with Necro a little more interesting in Canada if I am right, but either way, he just doesn’t seem to fit. Jimmy Jacobs leads a revolution against the world of close mindedness. Tyler Black is young and easy to manipulate into the ideals of Jacobs. Delirious was lost and in need of direction that only Jimmy and Alison Wonderland could provide. What exactly is the reason for Brodie to be there?

Chris Lansdell : BUY. Yeah I’ll agree. I haven’t seen CHIKARA in a while, but last I saw Brodie Lee was a big angry trucker. Age of the Fall started as a group of people who felt that RoH, and life in general, had not given them a fair shake but has now morphed into a group of emo kids who hate everyone and everything. It just seems like a weird fit for Brodie, and although I’m glad to see him in RoH I don’t fully understand why he’s in AotF. It’s starting to resemble a less-successful nWo, with everyone joining it to give them something to do.

4 for 5.

Michael Bauer : BUY No disrespect to the PWG, because I have seen the product and have been nothing but impressed, but they are a minor league when compared to places like Ring of Honor. It is in the attendance, it is in the massive rescheduling of both talent and shows, and it is in the end result amid rumors they would be folding this summer. And with Nigel getting injured, possibly with another concussion just a week before an all champions match for the World Title PLUS a match with Necro, which should be physical as hell, why shouldn’t Ring of Honor be more cautious? Add in the fact that the ring nearly became a total nightmare during the finals and Ring of Honor should be more than just hesitant in allowing their top stars to compete elsewhere. Nigel is already a part timer as it is, but guys like Danielson and Chris Hero have a huge following in the PWG and might be tougher to pry away from another pay day, but it should be done.

Chris Lansdell : SELL. Not only is this not PWG’s fault, but RoH has to be aware that injuries are always a possibility. Nigel could have been hurt wrestling in Japan, Germany, England, RoH, PWG, 1PW, NOAH…Sure the conditions were less than ideal and the ring ropes broke, but by that point the injury had already happened. RoH’s ring is not exactly state-of-the-art either. Allowing their contracted talent to wrestle elsewhere helps expose their product to a wider market and also gives the wrestlers more of an opportunity to wrestle against opponents with different styles. RoH may think twice before lending out talent to ANY show, but I don’t think PWG will or should be singled out.

4 for 6.

The Eighty first edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 4 for 6! Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.