411’s ROH Roundtable Preview: Montreal and Toronto, Canada, November 7th & 8th, 2008

Heyyyyy! Welcome back to the ROH Round table. The round table that almost wasn’t. I was so swept over by the fervor and excitement surrounding the 2008 elections here in the good ol’ U.S.A. that I plum forgot to put up the predictions page on the 411 staff forum this past weekend. Luckily, Sam Berman pitched me an email and reminded me of my Honorly (I just made that word up) responsibilities and I managed to put this lil’ thing together in the nick of time. Many thanks to the 411 crew who came together on short time to do this thing.

One Year Ago: (results from ROHwrestling.com)

Survival of the Fittest 2007- Las Vegas, NV 10/19/07
1. First Round: Roderick Strong beat Brent Albright (411 Mania Said: Roderick Strong 7-1)
2. First Round: Chris Hero beat Karl Anderson (411 Mania Said: Chris Hero 8-0)
3. First Round: Rocky Romero beat TJ Perkins (411 Mania Said: Rocky Romero 6-2)
4. First Round: Austin Aries beat Delirious (411 Mania Said: Austin Aries 7-1)
5. First Round: Claudio Castagnoli beat Davey Richards (411 Mania Said: Claudio Castagnoli 6-2)
6. First Round: Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ended in a 20 minute draw (411 Mania Said: Nigel McGuinness 4-2-1-1)
7. First Round: Human Tornado won a Triple Threat Match over Shane Hagadorn & Tony Kozina
8. Jimmy Jacobs & Necro Butcher defeated Jay & Mark Briscoe in a non title match (411 Mania Said: Jimmy Jacobs & Necro Butcher 7-1)
9. Chris Hero won Survival of the Fittest by defeating Claudio Castagnoli, Austin Aries, Rocky Romero, Roderick Strong, & Human Tornado (411 Mania Said: Austin Aries 5, Roderick Strong 2, Chris Hero 1)

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Chaos At The Cow Palace- San Francisco, CA 10/21/07
1. Chris Hero beat The Human Tornado (411 Mania Said: Chris Hero 7-0)
2. Roderick Strong beat Claudio Castagnoli to retain the FIP Heavyweight Title (411 Mania Said: Roderick Strong 7-0)
3. Adam Pearce beat Karl Anderson (411 Mania Said: Adam Pearce 6-1)
4. Brent Albright beat Delirious (411 Mania Said: Delirious 4-3)
5. Rocky Romero & Davey Richards beat Tony Kozina & TJ Perkins (411 Mania Said: Davey Richards & Rocky Romero 7-0)
6. Necro Butcher & Jimmy Jacobs beat Rocky Romero & Davey Richards
7. Bryan Danielson defeated Austin Aries in a second match in their Best of Three Series (411 Mania Said: Bryan Danielson (7-0)
8. Nigel McGuinness beat Jay Briscoe to retain the ROH World Title Nigel McGuinness (411 Mania Said: (7-0)

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ROH from the Round

ROH DEBUTS IN MONTREAL, QUEBEC, CANADA
FRIDAY NOVEMBER 7TH 2008

Erick Stevens vs. Eddie Edwards with Larry Sweeney

Jarrod Westerfeld: Perhaps this’ll be the bout that is returned to Stevens to keep his interest in hunting down Larry Sweeney.

Winner: Erick Stevens

Michael Bauer: Eddie has a big mouth, Erick is just big. SnS doesn’t do a sweep here.

Winner: Erick Stevens

Bayani Domingo: Eddie who?

Winner: Erick Stevens

Samuel Berman: ROH should build up Edwards to make him seem as dangerous as Sweet ‘n Sour’s other players. Stevens is pretty solidly established at this point, so he can handle the loss.

Winner: Eddie Edwards

Ari Berenstein: Edwards is silent but deadly…meaning the crowd is silent during his matches and what we see in the ring is deadly to your brain cells.

Winner: Erick Stevens

411 Staff Picks: Erick Stevens (4-1)

Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Kenny Omega & Kenny King

Jarrod Westerfeld: Uhm…this is the Briscoe’s we’re talking about and they’re taking on a thrown together tandem here. Yeah, what more need be said here?

Winner: Jay & Mark Briscoe

Michael Bauer: Kenny and Kenny vs. The Briscoes??? HA!!!

Winner: The Briscoes

Bayani Domingo: I can’t vote against my homie Kenny Omega can I? No way do they beat the Briscoes, but this should be entertaining as Dos Kennys try to earn a roster spot in RoH. I’m almost hoping it doesn’t happen so Omega can be a PWG regular 1st and foremost. At some point you have to expect after the Briscoes hit the Doomsday Device some joker is gonna yell “You killed Kenny”…you bastards.

Winner: Briscoes

Samuel Berman: Omega & King might actually work pretty well as a team. The Briscoes, even when not completely motivated, can have a pretty good match with just about anyone, and with the assorted Kennys bringing a fair amount to the table, this should be a very solid mid-card tag match. I wonder if a makeshift team like Omega & King could catch fire the way that Steen & Generico did in 2007? Come to think of it, isn’t a competitive loss to Jay & Mark the way they started off, too?

Winners: Jay & Mark Briscoe

Ari Berenstein: This match could be a mid card revelation—I think Kenny and Kenny are going to provide some stiff competition for The Briscoes, even though this will be their first time teaming together. They have some intriguing possibilities with those two, either meshing well or losing due to a mix up and then starting a rivalry between the two of them in ROH. Either way, I think fans will enjoy the presentation here.

Winner: The Briscoes

411 Staff Picks: The Briscoes (5-0)

The Necro Butcher vs. Brodie Lee

Jarrod Westerfeld: Necro’s rules will be in effect, and seeing this is a singles match the rules of Necro’s ROH role kicks in and dictates he can’t win this bout.

Winner: Brodie Lee

Michael Bauer: This match should be made no DQ, because that would be fun as all hell. Brodie shouldn’t win his first singles match in RoH, so I go with the Necro.

Winner: NECRO!!!

Bayani Domingo: This seems like an odd match-up, are we sure this isn’t Chikara or Mid-South? Brodie is the new guy, but Necro is the one receiving the push. I always figure the new guy jobs for a while before he gets an upset victory.

Winner: Necro Butcher

Samuel Berman: Brodie could use the bump in credibility and Necro is impervious to losing heat, so that means that the “Big Rig” picks up the duke.

Winner: Brodie Lee

Ari Berenstein: This is likely going to be the first sign of the differences between Pearce’s booking and Sapolsky’s booking. The latter would be very hesitant to put over new talent early on in their ROH run, but I don’t think Pearce will have those same compunctions. Plus, if Brodie is going to be in for the long haul, then I can see this pair being rivals for some time to come…so it makes sense for the heel to go over in the first match.

Winner: Brodie Lee

411 Staff Picks: Brodie Lee (3-2)

Jerry Lynn vs. Delirious

Jarrod Westerfeld: As fun as this can be I wouldn’t put down money on Delirious being the guy to knock around Lynn, as they’ll probably be building up Jerry for another shot at Nigel later down the road and this could be the start of a big roll for him.

Winner: Jerry Lynn

Michael Bauer: Delirious gets Jerry Lynn this week. Unlike Claudio and Black, Jerry Lynn would lose steam if he lost to the nut job.

Winner: Jerry Lynn

Bayani Domingo: Say what? This match makes no sense but I can’t remember the last real win Lynn got so…

Winner: “The Old F’n Show” Jerry Lynn

Samuel Berman: The focus for Lynn should be building to a rematch (for the title this time) with Nigel. ROH has made no bones about jobbing Delirious out at almost every possible opportunity, so I don’t see why that would change here. A win would do wonders for the masked man.

Winner: Jerry Lynn

Ari Berenstein: After dropping a match to Tyler Black, Lynn needs to rebound in order to make a good case for another title match. He fights someone lower down the totem pole on the Age of the Fall in Delirious, who will likely play it very straight, resulting in a more focused and intense wrestling match. Lynn gets the win here and a measure of competitive redemption against Age of the Fall.

Winner: Jerry Lynn

411 Staff Picks: Jerry Lynn (5-0)

Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards with Larry Sweeney

Jarrod Westerfeld: I’m shocked we’re getting this so early considering every storyline revolving around Sweet n’ Sour Inc. has resulted in delays in the blow-off we want and diversions of the talents to focus upon other workers away from the main story. The way SnS has been built up as this strong force that doesn’t really accomplish much, it’s time to continue that route of accomplishing nothing by beating up Strong.

Winner: Davey Richards

Michael Bauer: They fight in Japan, they fight in Canada… what the hell is wrong with the United States? Roderick won the battle in Japan and Davey needs the win.

Winner: Davey Richards

Bayani Domingo: This seems like a good match-up on paper and I’ve seen these guys go at it before, but this seems like a good of a time as any to give Davey some momentum here against Strong as he’s gunning for Albright and looks to be the next “Hitman” for Sweeney.

Winner: Davey Richards

Samuel Berman: Davey should win this one in dominant fashion, if only to shock the system a little bit. That means the Strong will probably force him into submission… I’ll take the flyer, though.

Winner: Davey Richards

Ari Berenstein: It’s a clean sweep for Richards here, although I’m kind of shocked everyone in our prediction party is going for him. I think if Strong wins two in a row against Richards then there’s no real tension any more in the Strong vs. Sweeney story, so here is where Richards wins the rematch due to chicanery and setting up the rubber match.

Winner: Davey Richards

411 Staff Picks: Davey Richards (5-0)

Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries

Jarrod Westerfeld: I think if anything this might end up on the reverse end of what Respect is Earned II resulted in, so Danielson and Aries snatch up a victory here.

Winner: Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries

Michael Bauer: I’m loving this match, or rematch, and it is a perfect time for it. With no titles on the line this time, I think Age of the Fall get a win back over Aries.

Winners: The Age of the Fall

Bayani Domingo: I have to think Black has to look good going into a potential match against Samoa Joe, my guess is he pins one of the other potential Joe opponents just to make a strong case for himself.

Winner: AoTF

Samuel Berman: Isn’t this match for a shot at the tag belts? Assuming it is, I think this will be another case of Jacobs and Aries not being able to keep their emotions in check. Black will once again get the win over Danielson in a tag environment, and in even more convincing fashion to set up the next singles match between the two.

Winners: Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black

Ari Berenstein: I also believe Age of the Fall is winning this one, but Black will be pinning Austin Aries, his first pinfall or submission against that man ever.

Winner: The Age of the Fall

411 Staff Picks: The Age of the Fall (4-1)

Four Way Elimination Match for the ROH World Title: ROH World Champion Nigel McGuinness vs. FIP World Heavyweight Champion Go Shiozaki vs. ROH World Tag Team Champion Kevin Steen vs. ROH World Tag Team Champion El Generico

Jarrod Westerfeld: I expect this to come down to Steen and McGuinness once more facing off, with Nigel eliminating Generico and Steen riding the match of Shiozaki. At that point, it breaks down to whether or not it’s time for McGuinness to lose the strap and I’m still of the opinion that he’s breaking that 15 month period.

Michael Bauer: This is way too predictable. Like I said in the Buy or Sell this week, I expect it to end up as Steen vs. Nigel and NIgel escapes once again.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Bayani Domingo: This really looks like a cool match, but I just can’t see how this is going to end up other than Steen and Generico teaming up to get rid of Go, probably Steen accidentally getting taken out by an errant Ole Kick, then Nigel pins Generico and cheats to pin Steen right after. No way does RoH put the title on one of these other three since it seems pointless to intersect more than one storyline here. Plus, after Nigel gutted it out in BoLA with one good eye last weekend I just can’t root against the guy.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness and his impaired depth perception.

Samuel Berman: Nigel cannot lose before his match with Danielson, mostly because with all of the recent in-house fluctuations, ROH can’t afford to abort that sort of payoff. Theoretically, Steen & Generico would work together to eliminate their opponents and then let the best man win between them. Unfortunately, ROH isn’t moving the title and we’re going to have to wait for ROH’s first edition of Steen vs. Generico. When they eventually do that match, it’s going to be amazing. I’ll pick Generico to be the last man eliminated here.

Winner and STILL ROH World Champion: Nigel McGuinness.

Ari Berenstein: Generico’s high profile title match against McGuinness was recently released to DVD and with that fresh in everyone’s mind I expect Generico to be the last one in against Nigel to close out the match. However, the champion retains on the road to 11/22 and the Rising Above tapings.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness to retain the ROH World Title.

411 Staff Picks: Nigel McGuinness (5-0)

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ROH Videowire: November 4th, 2008

ELECT PRINCE NANA ‘08

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ROH RETURNS TO TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA
SATURDAY NOVEMBER 8TH 2008

Brodie Lee & Delirious vs. Kenny King & ????

[Ed. Note: I asked that the staff pick who The Age of the Fall’s opponents will be, but Kenny King was announced as a part of this match after the participants had submitted their picks.]

Jarrod Westerfeld: Let’s go with Delirious and Brodie Lee taking on the tandem of Roderick Strong and Erick Stevens, and that because the other AotF members have already picked up wins, I’ll give it to Team PAIN.

Winner: Roderick Strong & Erick Stevens

Michael Bauer: Well, for some reason Kenny King already stepped up. I have no idea why and I have no clue who he could team up with. I’ll guess Eddie Edwards as King joins Sweet N’ Sour Inc. and they then score a possible upset.

Winners: King and Edwards

Bayani Domingo: Um…tough to say…King, Edwards, Go, Strong, and Stevens are all still available…I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up as a 3 team tag match with Edwards and Go teaming up and Strong and Stevens teaming up as a warm up. If that’s the case look for Edwards to probably eat a pin and get Strong and Stevens over as a tag team threat.

Winner: Strong and Stevens

Samuel Berman: Well, Kenny King has already stepped up to the plate, so I’ll go with Kenny Omega pulling double-duty on this night to help that team get over as a unit. Again, they come up short.

Winners: Brodie Lee & Delirious

Ari Berenstein: Age of the Fall vs. Kenny King…and RHETT TITUS! The thrust is a must for Rhett and I think he’ll be thrusting all over Delirious’s general direction. Then Bodie Lee will thrust his big boot right into Lee’s face. Reconstructive surgery is a must.

Winner: Brodie Lee & Delirious

411 Staff Picks: Age of the Fall’s opponents (King & ????) (3-2)

Jerry Lynn vs. Davey Richards with Larry Sweeney

Jarrod Westerfeld: Like I said, Lynn starts his roll on the previous night and it goes right through Richards here.

Winner: Jerry Lynn

Michael Bauer: I am very intrigued by this match. Davey could go two for two and beating Jerry Lynn would be great for him.

Winner: Davey Richards

Bayani Domingo: Sorry Jerry, at least you got one win this weekend.

Winner: Davey “Mighty Mouse” Richards

Samuel Berman: Davey can be ROH’s new killer if they book him right. “Right” in this case would mean that he gets a big win over a ring veteran to further put him over as a murderous thug in the ring as a result of his tour in Japan.

Winner: Davey Richards

Ari Berenstein: I see either a time limit draw or perhaps a DQ finish with Sweeney and The Inc. causing some havoc. I’ll go with a DQ win for Lynn and maybe a run in by Roderick Strong to avenge the previous night’s loss and save Lynn from further punishment.

Winner: Jerry Lynn (via DQ)

411 Staff Picks: Davey Richards (3-2)

Three Way Match: Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black vs. Kenny Omega

Jarrod Westerfeld: As fun as this’ll be, Omega is eating a pin here to protect the prospect of another standoff between Danielson and Black, which’ll probably come down the road to determine who faces off with Nigel for the title. Black is already on a bit of a roll himself with a win over Lynn at the last ROH weekend shot, so I’ll bank on him getting the win here.

Winner: Tyler Black

Michael Bauer: Why is Kenny Omega in this match? He eats the pinfall, but Danielson gets the win and momentum going into his title shot.

Winner: Bryan Danielson

Bayani Domingo: So Tyler pins either Danielson or Aries one night and then probably ends up getting another pin on Omega for good measure. Then again I could see Danielson getting his win back just to give him momentum into a possible rematch with Joe. Hmmm…I’ll go with Danielson this time as Omega will be staring up at the lights either way.

Winner: Danielson

Samuel Berman: Danielson getting a win over Tyler would negate the previous night’s progress, but so would Black getting his “big” win with Omega involved. I’ll say that Danielson forces Omega into submission to get the victory.

Winner: Bryan Danielson

Ari Berenstein: Bauer questions why Omega is in the match but I question why Danielson was placed into the match. Yes, his involvement definitely ups the potential quality and the drama…but it also takes away from what could have been a really cool one-on-one match-up between Black and Omega. Plus it’s another Danielson vs. Black match in a year that has been full of them. Great matches no doubt, but you’d think ROH would want to minimize their interaction so that when a final match between the two comes (and I should it would be soon) you’d have the maximum effect. Black to win against Omega to further his case for a match against Joe and then another crack at the world title.

Winner: Tyler Black

411 Staff Picks: Bryan Danielson (3-2-0)

Dog Collar Match: Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs

Jarrod Westerfeld: Is it sad that I’ve lost sight of this feud and subsequently don’t care as much? I’ve already lost tabs on the score card here and am so lost as to what the score is between these two that I’m left just guessing which candidate needs the win the most. I guess I’ll side with Jacobs after giving the tag match the previous night to Aries.

Winner: Jimmy Jacobs

Michael Bauer: Simple math. Best of three + Jacobs wins the first = Aries ties it up

Winner: Austin Aries

Bayani Domingo: You gotta think this match favors Jacobs more than Aries since Aries will be a bit limited in his moveset, also Jacobs LIVES for hardcore matches. Since this is going to 3 matches anyways I could see Jacobs going over and the next match will end up having Aries fighting just to stave off the clean sweep.

Winner: Jimmy Jacobs

Samuel Berman: This will be all kinds of awesome, probably on par with the Punk vs. Rave edition if the previous Aries vs. Jacobs contests have been any indication. Jacobs won Round 1, so that means that Aries has to win here to set up the final match on Pay-Per-View.

Winner: Austin Aries

Ari Berenstein: I think the feud has sort of winded down and while I feel the three match series was a bit forced upon this feud it probably is for the best. Bauer’s logic is right on and very appropriate. Aries wins a hard fought and likely bloody match to even up the series and head into a climactic PPV match.

Winner: Austin Aries

411 Staff Picks: Austin Aries (3-2)

World Tag Team Title: Kevin Steen & El Generico (if still champions) defend vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe

Jarrod Westerfeld: The tag titles are on the line and while I’m sure Gabe would have loved to put it back on the big stars of the company in the Briscoe’s, I’ve been saying for the longest that the tag division needs a rejuvenating boost and the only way to accomplish that is a hot tag team act that can carry the titles and restore the value of the tag division as being competitive rather than as a fodder system for the Briscoe’s legacy. With that said, El Steenerico are my picks to victory and retention.

Winner: Kevin Steen & El Generico

Michael Bauer: This match should be the main event as it is the biggest match of the night, Aries and Jacobs regardless. Steen-erico will get their big win in Canada as Tag Team Champions.

Winners: Steen and Generico

Bayani Domingo: Wait…how would Steenerico NOT still be champions? I’m confused now…um…either way they go in the same way they come out…champions. [Ed. Note: Bayani refers here and in the next prediction to “if still champion”, which is a phrase that comes from Ring of Honor’s match listing, not my own writing]

Winner: Steen-erico

Samuel Berman: Has it really been over a year since we saw this matchup? Nothing will live up to the disgusting pain these four put each other through in the Ladder War, but given how much Steen & Generico have continued to develop, this should be just as good as the previous non-gimmick contests between the teams. It will be interesting to see how quickly the Briscoes adjust to the heel role they’ll no doubt be put in by facing the Canadians on their own home turf.

Winners and STILL ROH World Tag Team Champions: Kevin Steen & El Generico

Ari Berenstein: This is likely to be the real main event of the show and with Steen in his home province and Generico along for the ride, NO WAY do these two lose the tag titles. Steen & Generico get the Briscoes monkey off their back, beating the men they couldn’t defeat ever before.

Winner: Kevin Steen & El Generico to retain the ROH World Tag Team Titles

411 Staff Picks: Kevin Steen & El Generico (5-0)

ROH World Title: Nigel McGuinness (if still champion) defends vs. The Necro Butcher

Jarrod Westerfeld: Nigel retains.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Michael Bauer: I like Necro, but he is not championship material. End of story.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Bayani Domingo: What do you mean IF he’s still champion? Nigel isn’t going to drop the title without a good build and I just can’t see the new direction of RoH starting with Necro Butcher as champion.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Samuel Berman: Their match from the 2007 BOLA was really good, and a cool change of pace for Necro. Hopefully the much improved Nigel can help to elevate this match even further.

Winner and STILL ROH World Champion: Nigel McGuinness

Ari Berenstein: I think this may be an unexpected gem of a match and if there’s some cool stuff between the two then it doesn’t matter if Necro wins or loses, but how he’ll be remembered after this one.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness to retain the ROH World Title

411 Staff Picks: Nigel McGuinness (5-0)

And that’s going to take care of things from this end of the Honor table. Be sure to check in with 411 over the weekend for the latest results and information. Thanks for joining us!
–Ari–