411’s ROH Roundtable Preview: St. Louis, IL & Nashville, TN debuts, December 5th & 6th, 2008

Heyyyyy! Welcome back to the ROH Round table. It’s an important weekend for ROH as the company continues to live in its “new era” under new booking. ROH debuts in two new cities, one of which has fans who have been asking for a show for a good long time. ROH runs for the first time in Collinsville, IL, near St. Louis…and then in Nashville, TN, old heart of TNA a few years back. The debut should be important because ROH will see how many fans it can draw in these areas and see if it’s viable to continue its relative expansion in ‘09. The shows themselves are actually more of a set up for the bigger cards later in the month, which would be Final Battle weekend. However, there are some interesting and new combination of wrestlers being put into play on these cards, which at the least will give the fans some fresh matches and more unpredictable action. The main attraction takes place on December 6th in Nashville when Nigel McGuinness defend his ROH World Title (and seeks to get closer to tying Bryan Danielson’s fifteen month streak as champion, good for second longest run overall) against Jerry Lynn, whose time wrestling for TNA in the X-Division back when it ran in the Asylum. That should make for a good babyface reception for Lynn challenging the hateable McGuinnes. The previous night in St. Louis will see McGuinness and former rival turned ally Claudio Castagnoli fighting in a tag match against Lynn and “American Dragon” Bryan Danielson. Both the Englishman and the Swissman have their grudges against America’s own self professed “Best Wrestler in the World”. Who will come out on top in these matches?

One Year Ago: (results from ROHwrestling.com)

Reckless Abandon- Dayton, OH 11/30/07
1. Claudio Castagnoli beat Seth Skyfire (411 Mania Said: Claudio Castagnoli 6-0)
2. Delirious beat Adam Pearce in a Falls Count Anywhere Match (411 Mania Said: Adam Pearce 4-2)
3. Chris Hero beat Jigsaw (411 Mania Said: Chris Hero 6-0)
4. Bryan Danielson beat Necro Butcher (411 Mania Said: Bryan Danielson 4-1-0-1)
5. Nigel McGuinness beat Silas Young
6. Davey Richards beat Human Tornado & Erick Stevens in a Triple Threat Match
7. Austin Aries defeated Roderick Strong in a 30 Minute Ironman Match (411 Mania Said: Austin Aries 3-1-2)
8. Jack Evans & Ruckus won a Scramble Tag Match over Jay & Mark Briscoe, BJ Whitmer & Brent Albright, and Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs (411 Mania Said: Jack Evans & Ruckus or Brent Albright & BJ Whitmer 2-2-1-1)

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Unscripted III- Chicago Ridge, IL 12/1/07
1. Austin Aries beat Tyler Black
2. Sara Del Rey beat Lacey
3. Dingo won a Six Man Mayhem Match over Silas Young, Seth Skyfire, Danny Daniels, Dan Lawrence, & Trik Davis
4. Claudio Castagnoli beat Chris Hero
5. Adam Pearce & Shane Hagadorn beat Ernie Osiris & Mitch Franklin
6. Brent Albright beat Jigsaw
7. BJ Whitmer vs. Delirious ended in a No Contest when the Hangmen 3 atacked Delirious and hung him over the top rope with a chain
8. Jimmy Jacobs defeated Bryan Danielson
9. The Briscoe Brothers & Erick Stevens defeated Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, & Rocky Romero

This show was originally scheduled to be Trios Tournament 2007 until horrible weather and car accidents forced the show to be radically changed.

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ROH from the Round

ROH DEBUTS IN ST LOUIS
FRIDAY DECEMBER 5TH, 2008

Rhett Titus and Sal Rinuaro vs. Grizzly Redwood and Bushwacker Luke

Jarrod Westerfeld: Oh why not? Even a comedy act needs a win now and again, even if you don’t believe in it or like it. To the WWE Champion Grizzly Redwood and Bushwacker Luke.

Winner: Grizzly Redwood & Bushwacker Luke

Michael Bauer: Rhett and Sal… what a team. I think Grizzly and Luke lose here, for some odd reason that I cannot understand.

Winners: Rhett Titus and Sal Rinuaro

Samuel Berman: I’m running up on Ari’s (extended) deadline so these will follow last time’s ‘five words’ format. I don’t care at all.

Winner: Rhett Titus & Sal Rinauro

Ari Berenstein: I am loving the Grizzly Redwood character and amazingly enough, a “bushwacker” is as close to a natural pairing for a lumberjack with the exception of maybe a blue ox. However, Rhett Titus is in need of a “W” to be “da Threat” he really could be in the promotion.

Winner: Rhett Titus & Sal Rinauro

411 Mania Staff Picks: Rhett Titus & Sal Rinauro (3-1)

SHIMMER Title: MsChif (c) vs. Daizee Haze

Jarrod Westerfeld: I’m a big believer in MsChif being the champion to carry on the SHIMMER promotion into the New Year, and don’t see her dropping that strap too soon from now, barring something unfortunate befalling her. That said, Haze is something that needs to go over Del Rey before she can lay claim to the title and that hasn’t happened yet in the ROH-verse. So long as Haze has that monkey on her back, there’s no way I can view her winning the strap in a one-on-one situation.

Winner: MsChif

Michael Bauer: Daizee Haze is not winning here. A loss is needed to continue her decent into madness with Rhett. Besides, when would the SHIMMER title ever change hands.

Winner: MsChif

Samuel Berman: MsChif retains the title again.

Winner and STILL SHIMMER Champion: MsChif

Ari Berenstein: I think Daizee Haze would make for a very good SHIMMER champion one day. December 5th will not be that day. Haze has too much on her plate already and I think she’ll be too distracted with a bit of Delirious ‘s presence in this match.

Winner: MsChif to retain the SHIMMER title.

411 Mania Staff Picks: MsChif (4-0)

Kenny Omega vs. Kenny King

Jarrod Westerfeld: Kenny Omega is a far hotter act than Kenny King, thus on that principle alone, Omega has to pick up the victory here to earn his slot onto the ROH roster, and to prove that all of the hype around him from the rest of the indy scene is for real.

Winner: Kenny Omega

Michael Bauer: Whoever wins here loses on Saturday. Since Omega is teaming with an angry Briscoes team the next night, I’ll say kenny King gets the one on one win here.

Winner: Kenny King.

Samuel Berman: I like Omega, King wins.

Winner: Kenny King

Ari Berenstein: Omega will get the 1 on 1 payback here, but this match has a really good chance of stealing the undercard regardless.

Winner: Kenny Omega

411 Mania Staff Picks: It’s a Push (2-2)

The Necro Butcher & Ace Steel vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Delirious

Jarrod Westerfeld: It’s safe for Butcher and Steel to win out this one as Jacobs isn’t with his usual, and former ROH World Tag Team Champion partner Tyler Black. The question, though, is do you pull the trigger on them picking up the win or do you allow Delirious and Jacobs to look strong and emerge out of this as the superior looking figures they need to be after Jacobs fall to Aries at the last show? I think I’ll go with the wild card of a Jacobs and Delirious victory via some shenanigans, and thus allowing Age of the Fall some strength after the matter. But what holds me back from this is the thought that perhaps Black is the one who will walk away looking like the strongest member of this group with a victory over Aries, so with that on my mind I lean to the third option of a no contest.

Winner: No Contest

Michael Bauer: This looks to be nuts. Necro and Ace Steel??? Is there a crazier team in the history of Ring of Honor? I would say pro wrestling, but Terry Funk and Mick Foley is definitly more nuts. It makes sense Necro to lose here going into the bigger fight the next night.

Winners: The Age of the Fall

Samuel Berman: Steel should have stayed gone.

Winners: Jimmy Jacobs & Delirious

Ari Berenstein: Hey, if Ace brings the cowbell back, he’s fine with me. Team Crazy Necro Cool emerges with the victory as Haze returns the favor, distracting Delirious with her presence long enough to throw him off and fall victim to his opponents.

Winners: Necro Butcher & Ace Steel

411 Mania Staff Picks: The Age of the Fall (2-1-1)

Tag Team Gauntlet: Brent Albright & Erick Stevens vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Irish Airborne vs. ??? (winning team faces Sasaki & Nakajima at Final Battle 2008)

Jarrod Westerfeld: I don’t see the ROH World Tag Team Champions on this card, and I do believe them to be the team that needs to revitalize the tag division of this company. The only way for them to accomplish this goal, they have to be the ones that battle Sasaki and Nakajima, and they have to be victorious in that exchange to show their value as being equal to that of the Briscoe’s, all for the betterment of the tag titles.

Winner: Kevin Steen & El Generico

Michael Bauer: How the fuck is Irish Airborne in this match? Are Steen-erico busy this weekend? The last team here will also be the team known on saturday as “A Team Representing Sweet N Sour Inc.” My guess would have to be Chris Hero and Davey Richards. As for who wins… geez… I guess The Briscoes for yet another Dream Team Tag Match.

Winners: The Briscoes

Samuel Berman: Champs are fourth team, win.

Winners: Kevin Steen & El Generico

Ari Berenstein: I predicted that Steen & Generico would be the team to challenge Sasaki and Nakajima at Final Battle just a few weeks back during 411’s Buy or Sell. I won’t back away from that now, but man will it be hard for that to happen if they’re not the fourth team! I would like to say that Sasaki & Nakajima vs. Stevens & Albright would be very hoss and quite the nice brawler style match to see. The Briscoes could win it, but I feel they lose here to continue frustrations and set up a full heel turn…as soon as tomorrow night.

Winners: Kevin Steen & El Generico

411 Staff Picks: Kevin Steen & El Generico (3-1)

Austin Aries vs. Tyler Black

Jarrod Westerfeld: Like I said with Jacobs and Delirious’ match earlier, I am thinking that Black could be left to look like the strongest member of the group. He would have to be if the plan for him to be the man that eventually upsets Nigel’s title reign is to have any hope. Yeah, I know, there isn’t really a plan for that, but if Black wins this one then you have to believe this thought has some steam behind it.

Winner: Tyler Black

Michael Bauer: Well, Aries did pin Black in the Triple Threat last time around, so I have to believe Black picks back up the win here. He needs it to get some of his momentum back.

Winner: Tyler Black

Samuel Berman: Black wins, one-ups Jacobs.

Winner: Tyler Black

Ari Berenstein: My dream booking would have been for Black to beat Aries here, Danielson in Philly and Nigel in NYC for the title in order to become the legit next big thing ROH has seemingly had in store for him…and it would have redeemed all of the losses he’s had against these three all year. Well, with McGuinness vs. Marufuji announced, that kills my dream of seeing Black win the ROH World Title in NYC, but I do think we’re heading towards it…and I do think it begins here with a win against Aries, his first, and one that comes right after Jacobs’ most crushing defeat.

Winner: Tyler Black

411 Mania Staff Picks: Tyler Black (4-0)

ROH World Champion Nigel McGuinness & Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson & Jerry Lynn

Jarrod Westerfeld: This is one of those matches that can easily be thrown out with no finish and not upset the fans as you still have the promise of a Lynn and McGuinness encounter, and a Claudio and Danielson battle to come. However, I think some old school ROH mentality will kick in here and allow for this to hold a finish that leaves the fans wanting to see the eventual outcome that may not come to pass. By that I mean that Lynn pins Nigel to pick up the win and the steam to lead people into thinking he’s the man to end Nigel’s reign. I like that idea better than throwing out the match.

Winner: Bryan Danielson & Jerry Lynn

Michael Bauer: I honestly can’t imagine how this match would end. Nigel has never been pinned by Jerry Lynn before this match and I think the right way to book this would be a brawl between Claudio and Nigel, leaving Jerry and Nigel, with Jerry getting the pin over Nigel to plant another seed of doubt into Nigel’s continuing reign.

Winners: Jerry Lynn and Bryan Danielson

Samuel Berman: Lynn pins Nigel, intrigue abounds.

Winners: Bryan Danielson & Jerry Lynn

Ari Berenstein: Just a quick correction for Michael, Jerry Lynn has pinned Nigel McGuinness before, at At Our Best in 2004 (my first ROH show). Sure it may have been four years ago, but hey, lightning can strike twice. Now then, are you sure this is a “new’ ROH? I think we’re in for some of what the “old” ROH would have done for this one. Put the faces over and the challenger beating the champion the night before the title match.

Winners: Jerry Lynn and Bryan Danielson

411 Staff Picks: Jerry Lynn and Bryan Danielson (4-0)

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ROH Videowire: December 1st, 2008

SHANE HAGADORN IS DRUNK IN CANADA

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ROH DEBUTS IN NASHVILLE
SATURDAY DECEMBER 6TH 2008

Irish Airborne vs. Grizzley Redwood & Buchwhacker Luke

Jarrod Westerfeld: I cannot fathom a world where ROH keeps bringing in the Irish Airborne but doing nothing special with them to establish them as part of the main roster. I also cannot fathom a world where ROH has the Irish Airborne lose to Bushwhacker Luke and current WWE Champion Grizzley Redwood (you know that beard is really an alien that snatched away the Edge of old and replaced him with the miniature version of Gregory Helms).

Winner: Irish Airborne

Michael Bauer: Now, this is where Redwood and Luke get their win. The Airborne are nothing and no loss hurts them.

Winner: Grizzley Redwood & Buchwhacker Luke

Samuel Berman: Airborne should get the duke.

Winners: Jake & Dave Crist

Ari Berenstein: Jarrod, I can’t fathom why ROH would book Irish Airborne again in the first place. Still, I don’t see them losing here, because Grizzly and Luke are lower on the depth chart than even them.

Winners: Irish Airborne

411 Mania Staff Picks: Irish Airborne (3-1)

SHIMMER Four Corner Survival: Sara Del Rey vs. MsChif vs. Daizee Haze vs. Serena Deeb

Jarrod Westerfeld: Serena Deeb is obviously here just to eat the pin, the question is does the booking allow for Del Rey to take this one or do you push the idea that MsChif is a real contender to keep an eye on in the ROH-verse? After all, she’s the champion of SHIMMER she was the one to upset and take the title away from Sara it only seem fair that she be the one that looks dominate in this match if she doesn’t win. I could put this down to Sara picking up the win to push the idea of another face-off between her and current SHIMMER champion, building up the idea of Sara regaining her former glory and title.

Winner: Sara Del Rey

Michael Bauer: I think this match should be used as a way to get Del Rey more over, nothing else.

Winner: Sara Del Rey

Samuel Berman: Would rather watch paint dry.

Winner: Sara Del Rey

Ari Berenstein: Daizee Haze needs a babyface win and here is where she’ll get it.

Winner: Daizee Haze

411 Mania Staff Picks: Sara Del Rey (3-1-0-0)

Tag Team Grudge Match: Brent Albright & Erick Stevens vs. A Team Representing Sweet N Sour Inc.

Jarrod Westerfeld: Let’s put down Chris Hero and Davey Richards as the team representing Sweet N Sour Inc. And because we’re dealing with Hero and Richards, I think it’s safe to allow these men to pull off a victory to keep up the strength of the unit while keeping Albright and Stevens at bay in their search for redemption over Larry Sweeney. The chase to Larry is what’s going to pay off for these men, and hopefully unlike with the Claudio and Sweet N Sour feud of 2 years ago, these guys will actually get to face off with Larry and end the feud on some sort of note.

Winner: Chris Hero & Davey Richards

Michael Bauer: Sweet N’ Sour has shown almost no chinks in the armor lately. They need to lose sometimes and I think this would serve as the best time for it to happen.

Winners: Brent Albright & Erick Stevens

Samuel Berman: Good guys pick up victory.

Winners: Brent Albright & Erick Stevens

Ari Berenstein: Are Sweet & Sour Inc. ever going to lose? EVER? Not this one. I say its Hero & Richards or Richards & Edwards and either way its cheat 2 win for Sweet & Sour Inc.

Winners: Sweet & Sour Inc.

411 Mania Staff Picks: It’s a Push (2-2)

Six Man Tag Team Grudge Match: The Briscoes & Kenny Omega vs. Kenny King, Sal Rinuaro, & Rhett Titus

Jarrod Westerfeld: We’re talking about the Briscoe’s here, and no matter how you slice it, they’re too strong to lose here. However, I could see them lose this bout due to Omega eating a pin from Titus via some dastardly tactics. I don’t honestly believe that given that I can’t see the Briscoe’s actually leave the weekend without a single victory under their belt, so we’ll just hand it to them.

Winner: The Briscoes & Kenny Omega

Michael Bauer: To restate it: Whoever wins here lost on Friday. I have King winning on Friday and there is no way in hell that The Briscoes EVER lose to Rhett Titus.

Winners: The Briscoes & Kenny Omega

Samuel Berman: Interesting heels, but dominant faces.

Winners: Jay Briscoe, Mark Briscoe & Kenny Omega

Ari Berenstein: The Briscoes WILL lose here to a team of three lower card wrestlers, and that will tear it all up…because that’s flat out embarrassing. They’ll take it out on Kenny Omega, turning heel.

Winners: King, Rinauro & Titus

411 Mania Staff Picks: The Briscoes & Kenny Omega (3-1)

No DQ Match: Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli

Jarrod Westerfeld: This could go either way, and the only option not available on the table is a no contest as that would simply upset more fans than entice them to see what the next step between these men is. Danielson could use some momentum going into his grudge match finale with Morishima in a few weeks time, but Claudio needs to look strong in order to keep up this feud. If anything, Bryan doesn’t need to win to get momentum as he’s so over and so adored by the ROH fans that even coming up short would give him the required momentum for his match with Morishima. So with that in mind, I think Claudio can easily steal one here, leave Bryan looking strong and hungry for redemption against him as he turns his focus back to the giant he never was capable of slaying in a one-on-one encounter.

Winner: Claudio Castagnoli

Michael Bauer: I honestly believe Claudio has to get a win over Danielson at some point. Why not here?

Winner: Claudio Castagnoli

Samuel Berman: Danielson wins to avenge Chicago.

Winner: Bryan Danielson

Ari Berenstein: Well, I’d say even though it’s a no-dq match, we may get something screwy involving a count out (hell, it doesn’t say it’s a “no count out” match), but that may just about kill a new town, so I’d say we go with Bryan Danielson getting a win here by paying back Castagnoli by kicking his “f’n” head in with the added help of a chair.

Winner: Bryan Danielson

411 Mania Staff Picks: It’s a Push (2-2)

Tag Team War: The Necro Butcher & Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black

Jarrod Westerfeld: The former ROH World Tag Team Champions aren’t about to lose to a thrown together tandem, so I’m safely putting money on Age of the Fall for the victory here.

Winner: Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black

Michael Bauer: This will indeed be a war. The Age of the Fall “split” continues here with Necro picking up a huge win.

Winners: Necro and Aries

Samuel Berman: Age wins. Wasn’t this over?

Winners: Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black

Ari Berenstein: This is Necro’s time to shine. I predict that he will have picked up a win by pinning Delirious in St. Louis, and now he gets the duke over Tyler Black on his way to a singles match against Jacobs on one of the two Final Battle weekend shows. The loss here once again creates tension between Jacobs and Black, but they don’t break up…yet.

Winners: Necro Butcher and Austin Aries

411 Mania Staff Picks: It’s a Push (2-2)

ROH World Title: Nigel McGuinness (c) vs. Jerry Lynn

Jarrod Westerfeld: The false hope ending of the night before could allow for people to walk into this show expecting a new champion to emerge from this encounter, as was the case with Nigel pinning Morishima in that tag match that eventually led to him being the one to upset the dominate champion. However, I’m still firmly standing on Nigel being the guy to walk around with the strap for 15 months, so because it isn’t the 15 month mark just yet, Jerry Lynn loses. End of story.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Michael Bauer: Nigel’s reign will live on until Final Battle weekend. Jerry will give it a hell of an effort though.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness

Samuel Berman: ROH isn’t a nostalgia trip.

Winner and STILL ROH World Champion: Nigel McGuinness

Ari Berenstein: It was a bit of wild card perhaps that Lynn could win but that was before McGuinness vs. Marufuji was confirmed for NYC to close out the year. Lynn gives it a competitive go, but he comes up short.

Winner: Nigel McGuinness to retain the ROH World Title.

411 Mania Staff Picks: Nigel McGuinness (4-0)

And that’s all for now. Be sure to check in with 411 over the weekend for the latest results and information on ROH’s double shot. Thanks for joining us!
–Ari–