The Wednesday Wire 6.13.12: Beefed Up

Very busy this week. I’m moving to Florida, ya know. Outta Jersey in less than 7 days. Status for a column next week: doubtful. This week will likely be just replies to your comments from last week’s column. It’s Friday morning as I write this, so who knows where the column will end up. It’s time to go on our weekly journey! But first…

Call It A Discussion Point Discussion
Just Don’t Call It A Comeback (I’ve Been Here For Years)

Pretty simple idea here. Your comments are listed below your names. My replies are under the blue underlines. Got it? Good!

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From Nick M.
“It is as bad as you think, Nick. Outside of CM Punk, Sheamus (and to a certain extent, Daniel Bryan), WWE has been perfectly willing to ride the stardom of John Cena and Randy Orton into the ground for years now, while at the same time building no new long-term main event talent for the future.

Make no mistake, the future main event talent is already there on the roster for sure, but WWE needs to get its ass into collective gear on building that new main event talent and CONTINUE to establish them long-term — instead of these half-assed start/stop pushes we’ve seen in the last 5 years that have damaged several talents’ careers…and we all know the names.”
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I wouldn’t necessarily say that anybody’s career has been damaged, at least not irreparably. Ziggler should be on top of the card and should have been there at least a year ago if not longer. I have no problem with the fact that he got tossed back down to the US Title division, but then he was kicked out of there and has been part of a go-nowhere tag team (redundant?) with Swagger for way too long. You’re right, though, the future main event talent is already on the roster, but none of them have been primed to step up. Instead they’re pushing Big Show again. What’s the point of him being in the main event?

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From Seriously?
“No one since Punk has had the balls to step up and assume that fucking position. And if the rest of the roster is comfortable being mid carders. Then let them. And maybe someone on the FCW will step up and take the reigns. Ambrose? Cesaro? Ohno? Rollins? Wyatt? Let them be our future.”
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I disagree. You can’t step up if they don’t let you step up. What else is a guy like Dolph Ziggler supposed to do? He never gets any promo time and works his ass off in the ring and does everything he can to step up and stand out. He makes the most of the short amount of TV time he gets and yet he’s treated like a scrub. Things may be looking up for him right now, but only time will tell if he’ll get fucked again. Also, the prime example of why the line that Triple H and everybody else in management uses is bullshit: Zack Ryder. They keep spouting off the crap that you have to make yourself a star. Don’t wait for it — get yourself over and TAKE your spot. Zack Ryder did that. They tossed him a bone for a short time and he delivered in spades every time he got a chance. Now? He’s barely even on their internet shows.

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From Mark
“The sad thing is that the WWE has a talented roster, but constant start-stop pushes of talent means that nobody takes a lot of roster seriously. Look at the mid card now, there are numerous guys there that could be elevated to the next level such as Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Alex Riley, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Zack Ryder, Drew McIntyre, Wade Barrett & Tyson Kidd.

Hopefully the WWE can get behind the likes Christian, Cody Rhodes, Tensai, Ryback and Brodus Clay and these guys can be top guys for the next 5-10 years. I hope so because I don’t want to still be seeing John Cena vs. Big Show in 2015!”
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They haven’t done it “right” since Cena. He came in as a happy-go-lucky face but after minimal success he went heel. He lucked into the rapper gimmick and in his cockiness vied for Brock Lesnar and the WWE Title. He failed but was getting over and then went after Undertaker. He failed again but still looked pretty good in the process. After being heel for a year or so the fans wanted to cheer him and he went face, eventually winning the US Title. He was in a featured role on TV and defended it regularly. He stayed in that division for almost a year until he got over enough to get a WWE Title shot. He won it and history was made, for better or for worse. A simple chronology:

2002: Debuts as a smiley face. Goes heel and gets an edge and a gimmick.
2003: Stays edgy as a heel and challenges some top guys. Fails and ends up a face.
2004: Goes back down a notch and wins the midcard belt and feuds with midcard guys.
2005: Gets mega over and gets a shot at and wins the WWE Title.
2006: Becomes the tippy-top guy.

He won the title after 3 years of busting his ass. Now obviously it doesn’t have to go this way for everybody, but let’s compare it to Ziggler. To be fair, we will do it with the Ziggler character.

2008: Debuts as a snarky heel. Looks great in a loss against Batista.
2009: Does nothing for a while on RAW and ends up on SmackDown. Has great matches in unsuccessful bid for IC Title.
2010: Is random body #5 in MITB at ‘Mania. Is random body #4 in MITB at MITB. Wins IC Title in August and holds it until January.
2011: Unsuccessful World Title shot at the Rumble. Becomes Champ for 12 minutes after being awarded the belt. Moves to RAW and is random body #3 in a match at ‘Mania with SNOOKI as the focus. Wins the US Title, defends it fairly regularly. Loses the title.
2012: Unsuccessful WWE Title shot at the Rumble. Looks poised for a push but ends up in the go-nowhere tag division.

It really wasn’t bad up until this year. He had a pretty standard start, as he looked strong even though he couldn’t win the IC Title. He finally did win it and defended it in some good matches before losing it and getting a shot at the World Title. His involvement with Vickie and Edge helped him get way over and when he moved to RAW things were looking up. Even though he staggered a bit, once he won the US Title it looked like he was going to “legitimize” the title but he became a bit character with the belt and then was only there to eventually lose to Zack Ryder, who quickly got his own balls cut off. Since then he’s been completely lost in the shuffle. Maybe he’s about to step out again now, but they had him set up to become the next big main event guy about 7 months ago only to completely squander it.

As seen on the WWE.com Superstars dropdown.

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From SNITSKY FAN
“Really the E should look at giving up the world title and focus on ONE major title, 2 secondary titles and the tag championships as well. Book your show around competitive matches for these titles and guys will get over, over time. Right now the E seems to just be in panic mode.. Only looking for the quick fix.. Build em up the old fashion way!! Just my two cents.”
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That would be the smart, easy and obvious choice. Therefore it won’t happen.

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From Guest#6114
“How is Daniel Bryan considered a legitimate main eventer while Christian, Big Show, Kane & Del Rio are not. Big Show is probably main eventing No Way Out, Kane is in the exact same match as Bryan at least putting them on the same level, Del Rio is competing for the World title and Christian just came back from injury so he may or may not return to the main event title scene. In my opinion and probably the WWEs opinion those four guys are considered more important than Daniel Bryan at the main event level.”
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Bryan is up there because he was the World Champ for 4 months and got way over. Once he lost that belt he immediately transitioned into challenging for the WWE Title. Christian’s not up there because he’s not been treated that way and while I would love to see it, I wouldn’t buy him all of a sudden being the champ again in a week’s time. He needs to be built back up there. Del Rio just came back from an injury. He was looking unimpressive right before he got hurt and he’s barely said anything since returning. He needs to be built more and I think it would be the wrong move to put him over Sheamus on Sunday. As far as WWE’s perspective, I would put Bryan above Christian and Kane and about even with Del Rio at this point. That’s how I perceive it based on watching the shows, at least.

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From indeed
“Good article there. One person that should be on that list as he is kind of active is the miz. He may have messed up a spot or two but he still gets a big crowd reaction. He is improving in the ring and is great on the Mic.”

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From Guest#0251
“i think the worst thing they did was the depush of the miz. they had a main eventer in the palm of their hand, regardless of what everyone thinks of him, because he won the MAIN EVENT of Wrestlemania. Had a pretty good title run, was then jobbed out to cena and riley, did nothing until awesome truth AND then jobbed out to rock and eventually truth. I cannot fathom why they didn’t commit to him. The survior series buyrate and the battle royal incident were just BS reasons to damage the guy beyond repair.”
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One thing about Miz is that he keeps going back and forth between ripping the Jericho slow talk thing and just being himself. He’s much better as the bragadocious Miz who sometimes has a mean streak. Like I said earlier, I don’t believe that anyone has been damaged beyond repair. I just really don’t understand what happened with him. Miz is currently preparing to film the new Marine movie, so maybe he’ll cull some favor from doing that.

The last truly good tag team WWE has had?

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From the mecca
“Really? Really? Really? where is the Miz!?!?? WWE needs to get past punishing this guy and focus on elevating him. let him start having 10-20 minute matches on raw where he beats a good number of guys in the mid card. start with A-ry. then move up to Zach Ryder and Santino. then at a ppv let him put on a 20 minute match with Jericho. solid matches, with some clean wins, some not so clean fine, but as long as there are SOME clean wins, and good matches leading up to it, Miz could easily be winning a world title by Hell in a Cell or survivor series.”
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A response…

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From fuck the miz
“The Miz had his chance and blew it. It’s because they rushed his push and he is TERRIBLE in the ring. Otunga level of greenhorn bad.

Stop bringing up the Miz. He has done enough damage. Let him get jobbed for a few years on.Superstars. Then we will see.”
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While I disagree with Miz being needed so far near the top so soon, I also disagree with him being “Otunga level” bad. Hell, at this point Otunga isn’t even Otunga level bad. Miz already did pay his dues. What a silly thing for somebody to say. The guy has been with WWE for 7 years and he started out as the stupid MTV kid that everybody made fun of, then he stopped being a hokey idiot and formed the best tag team that WWE has seen in a long damn time with Morrison (Miz was the standout of that team, by the way). Miz made a couple of mistakes, and does NOT have a history of it, and everybody jumped all over him. He deserves another shot, and as I said above, hopefully he can build something back up after he’s finished with the movie.

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From @iamkingtony
“The internet won’t like this but the guy that WWE is dropping the ball with the most right now is THE MIZ. This guy should be the #1 heel in the company right now. Let’s get this out of the way right now, he’s a bigger mainstream star than John Cena, CM Punk, Sheamus or anyone else on the active roster. Hell I’d say he’s a bigger name mainstream than Triple H or maybe even Vince McMahon himself. He busts his ass doing all of the media and events and all of that. Then suddenly WWE decides to take a shit on him. Why?”
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I didn’t know there was still so much love for the Miz. I wouldn’t call him a bigger mainstream star than Cena, Vince or Triple H, but Miz does bust his ass more than anybody else in the company outside of Cena and got shafted by the major depush.

He filled the role well and he was kicked out for no reason.

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From Dr. Wiki
“I believe that the true problem with the roster is not the small main event scene but instead it’s the directionless midcard.

Dolph Ziggler needs to keep losing in Main Event matches against the very best until brutally attacking a ref that messes up a call. During that time have Ric Flair come out to establish that he is looking for the man who can take the mantle of the Nature Boy from him. Have him scouting some wrestler for a month or two until one day he comes out and challenges WWE Champion Daniel Bryan to see if he can stand against the New Nature Boy. If the NNB wins he gets a title match at the next PPV. Next week Daniel is in the ring ready when Ric Flair comes out and introduces Dolph Ziggler with new babyface music and a look of confidence as he wrestles Bryan in a 15 minute match and beating him with the figure Four. Ziggler will become a star after winning the title at the PPV and along with Ric defeats challenger after challenger with the Figure Four and his new confidence.”
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My only confusion/problem is with the Ziggler thing. So he attacks a ref brutally and then becomes a face with Ric Flair’s backing? I assume he’ll be out on “suspension” for a while after attacking the ref, but I wonder if the crowd would buy into him returning out of nowhere as a face. On top of that, I don’t like the idea of saddling him with another manager. He’s beyond more than capable of handling everything on his own. If he’s going to turn face, I would do it by having him run out to save Zack Ryder from a beat down. Have Dolph lose big matches doing the heel thing (with Vickie still by his side) and have him get increasingly frustrated and have him show come confidence loss, but not on a major scale. After an especially big loss he walks out on Vickie in a somewhat low key manner (no screaming or blame or anything like that). Meanwhile, Ryder is building himself back up and eventually gets the IC or US Title. One night on RAW he’s taking a beatdown from someone and all of a sudden “I’M HERE TO SHOW THE WORLD… COME ON!” plays and out runs Ziggler, who has been unseen for about a month and a half. He saves Ryder and helps him up and even offers a handshake, but Ryder cautiously doesn’t accept.

The following week Ziggler explains why he left and why he helped Ryder. He realized that Ryder’s positive attitude and hard work was what helped him defeat Ziggler for the title in the first place and he feels somewhat responsible for his downfall but is in awe of how he was able to refocus and get back to the top. People may not believe him, especially Ryder, but he’s ready to use his athletic abilities to get back to winning the right way. He ends up winning some matches and ending up in a fourway match for Ryder’s title, and proves himself once and for all by sacrificing himself to take a big move that Ryder was about to take (say Ryback’s clothesline) that allows Ryder to roll somebody else up for the pin. He offers a handshake again and Ryder accepts, then he holds his hand up in victory and leaves the ring for Ryder to celebrate. He can work up to the World Title from there.

I love everything else you wrote, though. Spot on with the midcard being the problem. Get them organized and some of them WILL break through. A bunch of other people seem to agree as well. Bravo, evil Dr. Wiki!

Why is this on Superstars instead of RAW or SmackDown?

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From JR
“Good list, although I’m surprised that Ziggler or the Miz isn’t on here. The Miz actually had that mainstream appeal as well during his title reign but the WWE hasn’t pushed him as much lately.

Dr. Wiki did a great job of setting up potential feuds in the near future, hopefully WWE Creative pays attention.”
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Ziggler and Miz should be there, but that’s the whole point of the column. They haven’t been put in the position that they can snag a world title shot and walk out with the belt without everybody saying “wait.. what?” I explained that Tensai would work as a monster that wins the title thanks to Laurinitis screwing over the champ and then holds the belt as pretty much a surrogate champion for Laurinitis to hold the belt hostage. Otherwise I wouldn’t have him on the list. I was not quite sure about Rhodes, but I put him on there because he’s been very visible. He’s on SD every week in a feature role and gets time on RAW almost every week as well and he gets mic time. He can be built for 3-5 weeks leading up to a title match on PPV, win the belt and work himself into being a legit World Champ in short form. Miz at this point is too far gone for it to be done in such a short span of time and I feel the same about Ziggler. Zig Zag is closer, but he needs some good rebuilding.

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From Billy_Pilgrim
“Dr Wiki is prett much spot on. It’s not a lack of top talent, it’s a lack of solid midcard talent you can shoehorn into feuds. Guys like RVD, Guerrero, Benoit, Booker T, Edge spent a long time getting established as credible wrestlers before being given a shot in the main event. There are some guys who can bypass this step (Ryback could possibly be one), but you need to give some of your mid-tier guys meaningful feuds to show off their skills, so when they get in the ring with Cena and Punk you know they won’t be destroyed.”
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Exactly! Those guys spent forever below the top level and eventually stepped up and became great. Most notably Edge, obviously, who became a huge star and stayed there for almost 6 years after being in the company since 1998. He was a long term tag star who eventually was able to break out into the midcard before upping his game and getting to the top. If WWE wasn’t so break-up happy with their tag teams (read: ADD, don’t care about tag teams and needy for quick fixes) they would be able to pair up two guys they want to be eventual stars and let them hone their craft as a team before breaking out and becoming singles guys. That way the fans can get behind them and they can become better wrestlers at the same time. Not fucking rocket science, really.

Ziggler v. Christian on SD… it’s a start!

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From Chris
“I think you forgot this guy because he’s been hurt, but he’s set to return and I see him winning a title fairly soon when he returns. I’m talking about Wade Barrett of course.

IMO, WWE has a lot of main-event talent, just the booking is so sorry and terrible they don’t elevate anyone ever it seems.”
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Ya know, I thought about it and at the time I didn’t think it would be right to add him, but after reading the multiple responses to last week’s column and thinking it over, Barrett should definitely be a part of that list. He left right after a good feud with Orton and he’s always been a visible member of the roster and somewhat high on the card. I could definitely see Wade returning and winning the WHC even within his first week or two back. If they get behind him the guy really can be the next big heel in the company and carry that torch for years to come.

As stated above, the list is about guys who can get that title and have it seem legit immediately and I don’t believe Ziggy Stardust of Mizter Ed have that kind of momentum behind them. Swagger certainly doesn’t, but when Dolph breaks away from him and Vickie, Swagzilla and Vickie should refocus as a pair and he can pull himself back up the card quickly. Let him stay in the mid-card title division for a while, but in a year or so he would be World Title ready with the right push.

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From rey
“as someone else already said. the wwe has rode the cena and orton horses into the ground. there is no excuse for the lack of depth in the main event scene. there is an entire roster of talent that doesnt even appear on tv.”
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That’s spot on. There are so many talented guys (Gabriel, Kidd, some of the NXT kids, Tatsu, etc) that never appear on RAW or SD or only show up to get squashed (see: Derrick Bateman on SD last week). Those guys should be rising up and stabilizing the mid-card scene so the roster doesn’t look so damned thin. It really is true that WWE has a great roster right at their fingertips; they just refuse to use so many talented dudes.

Dot Com ran a feature on embarassing pole matches from the past. Above: 7/26/2011

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From Andre the Midget
“Maybe if they had the announcers behind the desk, calling the match, getting the talent over, not getting themselves over or “wrestling” in the main event then things could improve slightly.

I thought this whole “WWE is toning down Michael Cole’s heel gimmick” was gonna hold some water. Look what happens when you read things on the internet and believe them to be real kiddes. You get burned. I can’t believe I fell for it…again!!”
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I think all of us, myself included, thought to ourselves after that “news” was reported “hey, I guess he does seem to have toned down a little…” but I guess we were just fooling ourselves. Fucking assholes we all are. I just don’t get it. Especially on SmackDown where they have Josh Mathews desperately trying to call the matches while Cole blathers on about nothing and Booker ends up latching on to making fun of him. If they need a three man team on SD I would love to see Road Dogg get a chance on commentary. Him, Mathews and Booker would probably be a really fun trio. It’s just a shame what they’re doing with Cole because in all honesty he was actually becoming a darn good commentator before they started with this bullshit. I didn’t despise it when the whole schtick started, but it should have ended at WrestleMania with King hitting the piledriver on him in a sub 5-minute match followed by a short absense and then Cole coming back and being contrite for a little while before acting like it never happened. Oh well. Let’s just hope this all ends sooner than later.

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From Guest#2733
“Are people still really saying The Miz can’t wrestle? He actually can, and developed quite a bit during his US title run, he had good matches with DB and it wasn’t just because he was being carried by the dragon. He would intergrate new moves into his set as time went on and since he is a medium sized guy can work with mostly anybody. He isn’t the most technical but he can make up for that as a heel, with more punches, clotheslines, and occasional resthold. With Riley getting the upper hand in the fued and being on TV the last few weeks they could have easily had Miz just reestablish himself as must see and reprove himself.

I swear I’m forgetting something but for me it just two much, have guys have meaningful close matches, and maybe let a guy like Ziggler win a match while looking amazing every once and awhile.”
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I definitely agree about Barrett. He will be a star if they get behind him and let him do his thing. Ryback needs to get a direction as has been noted a couple times here; put him with increasingly popular guys and go the Goldberg route. Give him one of the midcard titles and let him run with it for a while. I wouldn’t have him take the World Title for a while, but he should definitely dominate, get the belt and be somebody that everybody’s chasing, both faces and heels. He should just fight everybody. I wish they didn’t hire Sin Cara. If they want a masked man who can do flashy stuff and actually wrestle with any opponent, hire El Goddamned Generico. Hell, Samurai del Sol is young and coming up as a talent and he’s already better than Sin Cara. The guy was great and popular in Mexico, but for whatever reason it isn’t translating in WWE in the slightest. He’s not smooth at all and he often looks very tentative and hesitant. I think Triple H having more front office power while not an active wrestler is going to be a very good thing for WWE moving forward, but his first signing was a complete bust and they need to get rid of Sin Cara when his contract is up unless he can start really improving.

My Final Take On The Roster (For Now)

This is the way I see it; the main event looks thin because there’s nobody a level below that can step up — there’s really nobody the level below period. If they’re going to continue to make believe there are two brands, then here’s a set of rosters I’d love to see after a few months of people being built up properly (using current champions):

WWE Champion: CM Punk
Top Contenders: Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Tensai

World Heavyweight Champion: Sheamus
Top Condenders: Alberto Del Rio, Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett, Chris Jericho

United States Champion: Santino Marella
Top Contenders: Zack Ryder, Alex Riley, Jack Swagger, The Miz, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd

Intercontinental Champion: Christian
Top Contenders: Michael McGillicutty, Brodus Clay, Damien Sandow, Jinder Mahal, Drew McIntyre, Antonio Cesaro, Ryback

Tag Team Champions: Kofi Kingson & R-Truth
Top Contenders: The Usos, Primo & Epico, Hunico & Camacho, Titus O’Neil & Darren Young, Ezekiel Jackson & Mason Ryan, Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks

With this in place, you have a number of guys to fight amongst themselves in regular feuds and directly for #1 contenderships as well as against the champions. There are some guys not on the lists, as they are in a place right now where they shouldn’t be contenders or can fit in anywhere. Cena and Show are going to be busy for the foreseeable future and shouldn’t be near any titles. Kane can wrestle for either of the two World Titles as well as either of the two midcard titles. Upon their eventual returns, Mark Henry and Randy Orton would go back into contention for either the WWE or World Title and Sin Cara is persona non grata as far as I’m concerned at the moment. Guys like Yoshi Tatsu, Heath Slater, JTG and whomever else I’m missing can be jobber-ish but can work up to something. Ted DiBiase can enter a midcard division when he’s healthy.

It’s not a perfect set of division rosters and a lot of movements can be made, plus guys can be called up from FCW/NXT in due time, but it’s workable and can help WWE become interesting again if they actually book people/feuds/titles to matter.

Surely there’s a lot more to say about all of this and maybe one day we can look back into this topic and see what kind of progress, if any, has been made. Until then, I’m looking forward to seeing what “major storyline” they can come up with for the summer and if they will be able to ride that momentum, make new stars and actually give it a good payoff. There’s a lot of talent on the main roster presently and there’s plenty more that is primed and ready to come up when they get the call. Time, as they say, will tell what happens next.

Next week: Nada.

I’m moving down to Florida in less than a week so there won’t be a column next Wednesday nor will there be one the following week. As long as all goes as close to our plan as possible, you should be able to expect something from me on July 4th. My son and I are attending his first live wrestling show this Sunday at No Way Out, so if nothing else I’ll have a live report on that experience upon my return, but hopefully I’ll be back to full form by then. Thanks for all of the great comments last week and I’m looking forward to what you guys have this week.

Here’s that Tatsu v. Kidd match, by the way. The item on the pole was the leg of a Yoshi Tatsu action figure that Kidd ripped off. Yeah.

– Nicholas A. Marsico